How the CIA abets Trump’s JFK conspiracy mongering

The assassination of JFK  is a meme that has eclipsed the historical event. Donald Trump’s contention that Ted Cruz’s father was somehow involved in the death of the liberal president not only endures but flourishes online and redounds to the benefit of its authors. Why?


TrumpThe facts are largely passé. The story originated with an unreliable blogger, Wayne Madsen. It was picked up by the National Enquirer, embellished by fabulist Judyth Baker, repeated by Trump strategist Roger Stone, and amplified by conspiracy entrepreneur Alex Jones. The facts of Oswald’s actions are of little interest to reporters covering the story of the presidential horse race.

For journalists habituated to rejecting JFK conspiracy theories, Trump’s unfounded smear is laughable, another indicator of popular irrationality which responsible elites must dutifully decry. But this authoritative-sounding stance depends on the factually shaky premise that there is a credible consensual explanation of November 22, 1963.
There is no such thing. Trump has taken this fact to Bank of Populist Mistrust and cashed in. And he will continue to cash in because he intuits–correctly–that the U.S. government he seeks to take over, continues to obfuscate about JFK’ s assassination to this day.
Trump’s dubious claim about Cruz’s father cannot be definitively refuted because the FBI never identified Oswald’s associates in the famous photo cited by Trump. The FBI, under White House orders to cut off speculation about Oswald’s associates, did not conduct a serious investigation of Oswald in 1964.

Specifically the FBI did not investigate Oswald’s actions on behalf of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC).
This was not a failure of well-intentioned public servants as custodians of liberal opinion want to believe. It was a ‘national security’ decision. The FBI did not and could investigate the CIA operation, code named AMSPELL, that first publicized Oswald’s FPCC activities in August 1963. The FBI and CIA also concealed a COINTELPRO operation that targeted the FPCC in the fall of 1963.
These decisions remains in force today in 2016, another fact from which senior editors and  distinguished pundits prefer to avert their eyes. For example, the CIA continues to argue in federal court that it cannot and will not disclose the records of George Joannides, the deceased psychological warfare officer who lived in New Orleans and ran the AMPELL operation. Whether the CIA will release all of these records by October 2017 remains very much in doubt.

Oswald in New Orleans
With this veil of secrecy in place, Trump and his surrogates can, and no doubt will, continue to use the famous photo of Oswald handing out FPCC pamphlets with an unidentified man to impugn Cruz specifically and the federal government generally. The CIA’s ongoing coverup of its operations in New Orleans in 1963 is is not only a disservice to historical truth. It is Langley’s contribution to Trump campaign.
To be sure, the CIA does not support Trump institutionally. I’m sure many CIA officials are disturbed by his irrationality and lack of intelligence.. But the Agency’s persistent, malicious, and sinister secrecy around the events of 1963 continues to corrode confidence in the government, as it has for the last 53 years. Trump, who has contempt for democratic norms, is the beneficiary.

86 comments

  1. Larry Schnapf says:

    This story continues to gain traction because the others in the photos have not been identified and the Cruz family has not explained or documented the whereabouts of the father. They could easily put this story to rest if they provided answers.

    I’m not saying they have an obligation to do so but the story will continue to fester until someone documents where he was at the time the photo was made.

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      Larry: “the Cruz family has not explained or documented the whereabouts of the father. They could easily put this story to rest if they provided answers. ”
      ==============================

      I disagree, Larry. First, who the heck remembers exactly where they were half a century ago? The Cruzes may say:

      “Well, on that date we lived in street such and such”.

      Suppose that they produced a hotel invoice that “proves” that the elder Cruz was looking for work, say, in Baton Rouge, who is going to believe the authenticity of the invoice? People would say: “How convenient! He saved an invoice for 53 years!”

      [Larry:] “I’m not saying they have an obligation”

      Of course they don’t have, it would be nice and convenient if they COULD provide a convincing documentation, but they can’t.

      Additionally, Ted Cruz is notorious for not answering questions is a straightforward manner. He is convinced that the MSM hates him and is out to get him.

      Ted Cruz IS this wacko:

      http://datechguyblog.com/2015/09/03/kaity-thomson-ted-cruz-and-the-future-of-the-msm/

      • lysias says:

        Even if the Cruz family can’t prove where Rafael Cruz was on that date, couldn’t they at least say where he was? It’s very strange that they don’t do that.

  2. Charles says:

    This is fun…

    https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8891

    From:MirandaL@dnc.org

    To: WalkerE@dnc.org, FreundlichC@dnc.org, PaustenbachM@dnc.org, WalshT@dnc.org
    Date: 2016-05-03 13:22
    Subject: RE: draft — conspiracy theory release

    While I will note that Cruz’s father was in fact a militant who fought the Batista regime (which Fidel Castro defeated) and it would not be unusual for him to be caught up in the ugly web of Cuban militants with questionable histories (just look at the cabinet in the basement, one of the Watergate burglars was…Cuban)…with plenty of other examples including a guy who blew up a plane and was basically given safe refuge in Texas…not to mention those who were involved in the ugly Central American wars in the 80s…

  3. Bogman says:

    “But the Agency’s persistent, malicious, and sinister secrecy around the events of 1963 continues to corrode confidence in the government, as it has for the last 53 years. Trump, who has contempt for democratic norms, is the beneficiary.”

    Ain’t it da truth, Jeff.

  4. Russ Tarby says:

    fascinating the way history conflates with current events, and dark secrets have a way of coming back to haunt us…

  5. Ramon F Herrera says:

    [Jeff:]

    “I’m sure many CIA officials are disturbed by his irrationality and lack of intelligence.”

    ====================

    Donald Trump is extremely intelligent, went to grad school in UPenn’s Wharton, one of the best business schools in the country. His IQ is very high. He knows perfectly well, for instance, the benefits of Free Trade.

    Trump is PLAYING a role, very much as described here by a professor of journalism, about Bill O’Reilly:

    Prof. Jay Rosen (Columbia University):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Ux5rdBu1c

    Trump’s current persona was most likely designed by the genius of hypocritical campaigning and dirty tricks, our well known Roger Stone.

    Hugo Chavez did something very similar, shameless populism, spreading hatred, dividing people. Only difference: one from the left, the other from the right.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/bienvenido-el-presidente-trump-213764

    • Trump’s current persona was most likely designed by the genius of hypocritical campaigning and dirty tricks, our well known Roger Stone.

      Nonsense. There is such a thing as a careful, calculating disciplined demagogue. Hitler was the classic example of such.

      Trump is simply undisciplined, erratic, and says whatever pops into his head. A lot of what he says doesn’t serve any rational political purpose, demagogic other otherwise.

      The “Cruz’ father and Lee Oswald” thing is the best example of that.

      Attacking Hillary as a liar or Elizabeth Warren over her faux claim of Indian heritage is rational politics. Saying “look at that face” about Carly Fiorina just makes no sense.

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        Professor McAdams: I am surprised at your naivete. I am going to post a number Trump lines. They were definitely practiced, fine tuned. Incidentally: These professors disagree with you:

        http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-2016-trump-studies-213838?o=1

        I hurry to clarify that the stuff I will be adding below comes from a file that I have been “cultivating” for over a decade, used to debate conservatives in a semi-automated manner (specially about Latinos and Immigration). IOW: Don’t expect the quality and consistency of an academic paper.

        Here goes the first:

        Esteemed Mr. [Name Here]:

        I will just put you down as an active, enthusiastic member of Grupo Número Dos below, okay?
        ——————————————————————————————————————–
        There are THREE kinds of Republicans/Conservatives:

        (1) One group is busy spreading hatred
        (2) Another group is busy denying that the first group exists
        (3) The 3rd. group is Colin Powell

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        The attack on Elizabeth Warren is one of many with double edge. Context is essential.

        Edge 1: Defensible, regular attack, no biggie: “You took advantage of a presumed Indian blood. You lied”

        Edge 2: HYPOCRITICAL RACISM. “Not only are you a liar, but instead of saying that you are from the Boston nobility, you MIX YOUR RACE with those FUC** INDIANS”.

        In the 1st. edge, he inserts the knife, with the 2nd. one he twists it around, to the delirious acclamation of the racists that constitute his base. This has been widely studied, known as “code words” (for instance, “community organizer”, “Barry”, “Soetoro”) and dog whistle tones.

        Professor: Read about Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). I took a course of that in your Alma Mater, Harvard.

        For decades, racists have been forced to communicate with winks and elbow nudging. They enjoy Trump’s technique and await anxiously for his next carefully crafted jewel. Non-racist people also do that: we enjoy clever puns.

        They use expressions such as “He is from The Chosen Ones”, instead of “Jew” which can be overheard.

        More examples: In forums, they call me “Jose” or “Pedro” like Meryl Streep in the movie “The Devil Wears Prada” called Ann Hathaway all her assistants “Emily”, to show them how irrelevant/replaceable they were. A similar racist slur is “boy”. The subtext is: “You are less than me, always will be”.

        Again: I have been on the receiving end of that kind of language for more than 10 years. I recognized it within 3 minutes after Trump gave his first speech.

        ——————-

        “Jeb Bush’s comments come after Trump criticized Bush on Wednesday for speaking Spanish too often on the campaign trail. Bush, whose wife is from Mexico and who lives in the Miami area, spent a large part of Thursday responding to Trump’s swipe, calling it “bizarre” and illogical.

        Bush said that perhaps what was more offensive

        “was the notion that somehow I went down to the border and spoke Mexican.”

        “Those are dog whistle terms,” Bush continued. “He knows what he’s doing.”

        Bush was referring to a tweet that Trump retweeted last week:

        “Jeb Bush is crazy, who cares that he speaks Mexican, this is America, English!!”

        http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/jeb-bush-donald-trump-fight-back/?iid=ob_article_racetoWH_pool&iref=obnetwork

        ————–

        Calling the language spoken by Jeb Bush “Mexican” is a veiled insult to anybody who traces their roots to south of the border or Spain.
        ————–

        “[Trump] has dropped the Obama birther shtick he peddled in 2012 in favor of a rhetorical dog whistle the size of a tuba that attacks far more vulnerable populations like Mexican immigrants and Muslims.”http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/donald-trump-2016-trump-studies-213838

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        Professor Mac:

        Are you saying that the first FIVE minutes of Trump’s announcement speech was “whatever pops into his head”?

        =======================

        This is about Trump’s presidential announcement.

        I cannot believe all the media and nobody reported one of THE most important details. Trump pointed to several audience members (Anglos) and in a careful, deliberate manner told them, one by one:

        “Mexico does not send people like you … or like you … or like you … or like you …”

        They acknowledged the evident message by smiling in smug (superior) satisfaction. You could read their minds:

        “I am White, a therefore member of the Master Race!”.

        Any freshman shrink, psychologist, communication or marketing major will immediately tell you that dog whistle tone, coded message was being used.

        Anybody who fails to see this is blind. Whether by nature or by choice, only they know with certainty.

        ===================================

        When Trump makes a comment like ‘It felt like I was crossing the border’ (in a messy entrance to his event) he is sending dog whistle tones to his racist base.

        Make no mistake: by “border” he meant to insult every person whose ancestry/race is from south of the Rio Grande, much to the delirious delight of his voters.

        ===================================

        Here’s a man who has his own university where executives are taught how to negotiate, how to smile, how to issue overt and subtle negotiating threats, what colors to avoid, words to use, intonation, posture, gait, lunar cycle, eye level, home field advantage, psychology, inferences, meta-language, subtext, etc., etc., etc. … and yet …

        – “I would like to see you on your knees”

        – “Blood coming out of her whatever”

        – “It will take generations to have another Black president”

        – “Jeb Bush went to the border and speaks Mexican”

        are supposed to MEAN NOTHING!!??

        If you believe that the Trump speech is innocent and sincere [or UNPREPARED, .John], I have some land in Mexico for sale at bargain prices …

        =====================

        When Trump said “Jeb went to the border” he was NOT referring to a geographical travel.

        Trump was clearly referring to traveling away from the white race.

        Anybody who fails to see this is blind. Whether by nature or by choice, only they know with certainty.

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        The Trump attacks against Blacks are the best example of a finely crafted, exquisitely worded, devilishly clever Machiavellian message, which he repeats using the exact same terms, again, and again. The fingerprints of Roger Stone can be seen from miles.

        “Due to Obama, it will take generations to have another Black president”.

        Let’s dissect that jewel, shall we? The statement can have two, diametrically opposed interpretations:

        (a) “Gee, those poor Black people, sigh… It has taken them so long to make little progress and now, due to that damn Obama, they are back to square one!”

        or

        (b) “There will NEVER BE A FREAKIN’ N*GER in the White House, ever !!!”

        What we have here is commiseration vs. schadenfreude.

        Obviously, most people involved will claim that the proper intention of the statement is (a), correct?

        Question 1: Which of the two interpretations will produce more votes for Trump?

        Question 2: Do legendary political strategist -Nixon handler- Roger Stone, main advisor to Trump and the candidate himself -best selling author- know the answer to the above or not?

        • pat speer says:

          FWIW, I agree with Ramon’s overall point: that Trump is far more than the loose cannon some would like us to think he is. If you had conducted a scientific study of the American populace in order to figure out how the Republicans could win this fall, short of expanding their base (which they seem incredibly reluctant to do) it would have come up Trump. His celebrity and obnoxious behavior guaranteed media access. His race-baiting and fear mongering guarantees a mobilization of disenfranchised white voters. His new-found “conservatism” and selection of Mike Pence as VP guarantees the vote of most evangelicals. Now, that said, it’s clear that some of what Trump says is off-script. But I don’t think his comments about Ted Cruz’s dad is an example of this. Cruz was a pain in Trump’s rump. Trump knew that he could use Cruz’s ethnicity and family background to cast doubt about his being a true American. So what better way to do that than tie Cruz’s dad in with the murder of a President? Trump knew a certain percentage of the base would believe it, because, you know, “we can’t really trust men like Cruz.” And he had reason to suspect Cruz’s outraged response would only add to the questions. It worked.

          • Ramon F Herrera says:

            Pat: “Trump knew that he could use Cruz’s ethnicity and family background to cast doubt about his being a true American.”

            ==============

            That is yet another example of finely tuned, highly scripted, hypocritical twofer.

            Trump: “There aren’t many evangelicals coming from Cuba, since most Hispanics are Catholic”. (or words to that effect)

            With one stone, he tries to kills two birds.

            (1) Attack against his adversary: “Ted Cruz is not one of us.”

            (2) Attack against the Catholic Church: “Catholics are loyal to the Pope, they suck.” [He had previously attacked the Pope]

            Much to the delirious delight of his racist audience. It is not only the KKK, many protestants despise Catholics.

            https://www.google.com/#q=Trump+Cuba+Cruz+protestant

          • Ramon F Herrera says:

            Pat: It seems that by attacking Hispanics, Trump has managed to piss of Catholics in general:
            =================

            “Trump has done more to drive [Catholics] to the Democrats than Clinton has done to attract them.”

            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-driving-catholic-voters-toward-clinton/

            You can clearly see the wedge he is driving in the top chart.

        • Ramon F Herrera says:

          [Pat Speer:]
          “Now, that said, it’s clear that some of what Trump says is off-script”
          ===========

          Ah! That is a perfect cue for the comment I was typing. I have been following closely the Judge Curiel affair. Hillary was around 60% here:

          https://electionbettingodds.com/

          Trump -with no apparent political motivation whatsoever, since it was his private affair- began to repeat the EXACT same words (apparently unscripted except that if you switched channels he went from FAUX to CNN to all media, like a parrot).

          “He is a Mexican (which is great!). We have promised a wall. He is very loyal to Mexico. He is a member of La Raza. ”

          “He is a Mexican (which is great!). We have promised a wall. He is very loyal to Mexico. He is a member of La Raza. ”

          And in a typical hypocritical fashion from the Far Right, allowed the readers to reach their own conclusion:

          “Therefore, he cannot be fair in my case”.

          McConnell and Ryan were furious: “What do you mean your comment against Curiel were not racist!? They are the textbook definition of racism!”

          Believe it or not, Trump doubled down in his (according to McAdams) “unscripted” comments. Hillary went up, from 60% to 76%. NB: the Orlando massacre was a factor: while Obama and Clinton appeared dignified and presidential, Trump was banging on his chest:

          “People are calling ME, congratulating ME for having predicted this massacre!! ME, ME, ME!!”

          He was dancing on the graves.

          Here comes the important conclusion: They have a daily telephone conference where Donald Trump tells his leading supporters the daily script, word by word. He said:

          – Trump: “Today we are going to continue attacking Judge Curiel”

          – Former Governor of Arizona, Jan Brewer: “Donald, we were told this morning to STOP the attacks against the judge, since it is going very bad”

          – Trump: “Who the hell said that!?”

          – Somebody in the audience: “Erica Freeman”.

          – Trump (furious): “Who? I don’t even know who she is! This is why I have to do everything around here! I am surrounded by incompetents!”

          [Erica Freeman was likely fired on the spot]

          Trump: “Continue the attacks against Judge Curiel”

          Unscripted my rear bottom …

          Yes, I agree that the “blood coming out of her wherever” was unscripted. OTOH, see the multiple examples in this thread of clearly scripted (“Jeff went to the border” [of the white race]) optimally crafted material.

    • Jim says:

      Ramon, I’ve enjoyed and learned from your posts, so thank you. You mention Trump attending Penn’s Wharton as an indication of his intelligence. I attended Penn too (not Wharton) and shared an apartment 1 year with 4 Wharton students. Wealth more than intelligence is what they possessed. Most days they spent gambling, playing poker for high stakes with multiple TVs on with different games on that they placed bets on with multiple people who called frequently. Most likely these graduates ended up on Wall Street and brought 2008 to us. Trump is more wealthy than intelligent, and he is obviously someone who enjoys high risk investments. Losses mean nothing to him.

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        [Jim:] “Most likely these graduates ended up on Wall Street and brought 2008 to us.”
        ================

        For those seriously interested, this is an extraordinary resource:

        Four 1-hour episodes comprise this award winning documentary:

        Money, Power & Wall Street – PBS
        http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/money-power-wall-street/

        In short, the crash of the economy was due to lack of proper supervision. Oftentimes, the top experts in this highly specialized field move from NY (Wall Street) to DC, to become regulators of their former classmates and co-workers.

        It is pretty much the same as the CIA main chief in charge of investigating the CIA, and JE Hoover investigating the role of the FBI. Like the proverbial fox “guarding” the chicken.

        We owe to Elizabeth Warren the creation of a new agency.

        —————————————–

        Note: I am terribly disappointed at the position of PBS in the Kennedy case. The way they sold out is beyond the pale.

        See comment here:
        http://jfkfacts.org/jfk-facts-podcast-28-pages-911-another-dallas-nightmare/

  6. lysias says:

    Wouldn’t all Cruz’s family have to do to discredit the story be to show that Rafael Cruz was not in New Orleans at the time of the photo?

  7. Larry Schnapf says:

    he is indeed a branding genius and u have to give him credit for picking up the the depth of tbe voter discontent before any of the professionals. the campaign has been about creating a persona. he’s a showman. who knows if his buddy at The Enquirer ran the Cruz article to undermine that campaign.

  8. Paulf says:

    I don’t know if Rafael Cruz is in the photo, and if he was, whether that meant he was involved in anything nefarious.

    But the point is that by throwing out unfounded or unproven allegations it makes the whole JFK murder look like a joke. And that’s the biggest obstacle to finding the truth, the idea that investigating JFK’s death is deeply unserious and within the realm of nuts.

    That’s the harm of this allegation. I have no insight into Trump’s mind, whether he is doing that on purpose or just loves trying to troll his opponents, but the effect is bad.

    • lysias says:

      If that is Rafael Cruz in the photo, doesn’t that make it likely that he was working for the CIA and Angleton supporting and/or tracking Oswald, one more of the CIA’s Cubans? That doesn’t strike me as a joke.

  9. Larry Schnapf says:

    i think one of the major side stories of the allegation was chris matthews and others twisted what Trump said and claimed he said Cruz was involved in the assassination. this allowed them to the Oswald did it rant.

    • lysias says:

      I noticed that what Trump originally said not only didn’t say that Cruz was involved in the assassination, it also didn’t say that Oswald killed JFK.

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      “chris matthews and others twisted what Trump said”
      ================

      Larry: What Trump says is subject to all kinds of interpretations since he often speaks in the typical hypocrisy of the Far Right. Scroll up and down for examples. Do you need more examples? How many? I don’t recall any presidential or candidate to higher office making statements like:

      Trump: “There is something going on there”

      whose clear intent was to say to his base:

      Trump: “Obama supports the terrorists”.

      Say what you want about Liberals and Democrats, but we are straightforward to a fault.

  10. Blog surfers can attest that the number of comments is growing that Donald Trump has info on Rafael Cruz he has obtained from the unreleased CIA JFK files. The same batch of files Jeff Morley has been engaged in a fencing match over for a long time. Most feel Mr. Trump is currently teasing the public in the hopes his election as the next POTUS will enable him the power to put it all out in the public arena. Some see it as a CIA limited hangout.
    What is interesting is that the Justice Department & its FBI (both supposedly still investigating the murder of JFK) seemingly have turned a deaf ear to the Cruz allegations. No interviews of Rafael Cruz, no leaking counter-evidence to its MSM. Nothing to spar Mr. Trump with. This alone suggests to those bloggers & commenters that Mr. Trump’s announcements are solid & have evidence to back him up.
    I am taking all this in, wondering what we are possibly going to learn about LHO during his mysterious New Orleans FPFC escapade when the dust settles. Also, if it takes seriously big money to get info from the unreleased CIA files (Trump brags he’s got the big money), why doesn’t Mr. Trump help Jeff Morley & staff in their courageous head banging contest with the CIA to release this country’s CIA enslaved history?

    • Tom S. says:

      ….why doesn’t Mr. Trump help Jeff Morley & staff in their courageous head banging contest with the CIA to release this country’s CIA enslaved history?

      I expect there is miniscule justification to devote any serious consideration to your question because of the impression left by Trump with regard to his focus and “research” related to the birther movement.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/a-look-at-trumps-birther-statements/2011/04/27/AFeOYb1E_blog.html
      A look at Trump’s ‘birther’ statements
      By Glenn Kessler April 28, 2011
      ………
      Trump speculated that maybe Obama was hiding the fact that the birth certificate said he was Muslim, even though the so-called “long form” does not ask for religion. He claimed, without offering evidence, that he had hired investigators who “cannot believe what they’re finding.” To his credit, CNN’s Anderson Cooper confronted Trump with the fact that there was no sign of any Trump-sponsored investigation in Hawaii….

    • Most feel Mr. Trump is currently teasing the public in the hopes his election as the next POTUS will enable him the power to put it all out in the public arena. Some see it as a CIA limited hangout.

      Yet another post attributing to Trump way more cunning and calculation that he has shown any evidence of.

      I seriously doubt Trump knows anything about Morley’s campaign to get at the few remaining secret files. I doubt he even cares about the assassination.

    • lysias says:

      I wonder if this is a disguised threat by Trump to the CIA and the intel community about what he could do if they don’t cooperate with him.

    • Brad,

      To the best of my knowledge, the FBI, nor the CIA has confirmed or denied that the mathematically talented Rafael Cruz Sr., has either been interviewed, or not interviewed, by the FBI, or CIA. Furthermore there is no current investigation by the CIA in requires to the Assassination of the 35th President.There is an outreach by the US State department for foreign signal intercepts, and other classified files, held by Cuba, and Canada. In addition their are other files that are material to the Assassination of the 35th President likely held in Canada, Like the circumstances of General Lemay’s entry into Canada, and why he left by a Special Air Mission, and not on his 707 Speckled Trout, Their was an exercise going on during the assassination whose last transmission was picked up from a sister 707 doomsday plane circling Dallas at 12:24pm, perhaps General Lemay was involved in that exercise in Canada at North Bay, Ontario…. ( There are exercises scheduled 365 days a year for the Air Force, Each day some are done, and others are skipped, which exercise actually was taking place on 11-22-1963 is still a mystery, but the scheduled optional exercises still exist in some file)…., in addition extensive Files held by a foundation in Canada, are files “under seal for” number of years”, until they are released at the request of the donation giver of the files, these files likely contain relevant info on the Permadex Corporation activities of that era and likely further details about Claw Shaw’s visit to Montreal in August 1963, and his relationship with Permadex through his trade organization that was eventually purchased by the World trade Center corporation. So There is an active FBI investigation still taking 301’s and 302’s and current State Department activities routinely look into the possibility of Assassination related records over sea. There is No CIA investigation currently into the Assassination.

      Willy Bova

  11. Bob Prudhomme says:

    I’m beginning to think they should re-name this site TrumpFacts.org instead of JFKFacts.org.

    Wake me up when you get over your fascination with the Lunatic Fringe.

  12. Larry Schnapf says:

    @bob- i agree. this thread is getting very weird and risks undermining the brand of this site. maybe its time to shut down this thread.

  13. Ramon F Herrera says:

    Bob and Larry:

    I write this with the utmost respect.

    (1) Our most likely next president (according to polls), Donald Trump, will definitely tend to maintain the records locked. I insist: it was The Far Right, a partisan hit which REMAINS to this day. See the dramatic turnaround of O’Reilly and Geraldo Rivera, as small examples. Contrast the partisan/ideological composition of the WC vs. the HSCA. See this program, the latest salvo from the misinformation, coverup side:

    https://goo.gl/ywDPyW

    paid by the Koch Brothers. See the declarations of the Kennedys (and Secretary of State John Kerry, Kennedy by adoption). See the feeble attempts by Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

    (2) The 2 main exponents of both sides in JFK Facts, Jeff Morley and John McAdams have written (let’s say partially) WRONG interpretations about the man that is poised to be between us and full disclosure. One called him “mentally deficient” and the other “unprepared, erratic”. I have to demonstrate that such view is far from being the truth. I see it as my obligation.

    (3) “Keep your families and friends close, but your enemies closer”.

    (4) At this moment and unless they are incompetent, the CIA is preparing a strategy which will entirely depend on who is the victor, when the smoke settles the morning of Nov. 9, 2016

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      Bob & Larry: Again, with due respect.

      Feel free to click elsewhere. Nobody is putting a Mannlicher–Carcano to your head. 🙂

      The same advice goes to anybody who feels uneasy when things become too close to reality. Too close for comfort. Our “common endeavor” (*) is not a game. I for one am sick and tired of debating Z-Frame [insert you favorite frame number here] until the day we die like Garrison, Gaeton, Lane and so many others. Are we going to let James “We will wait them out” Angleton, win?

      We need to kick back somehow: guess who is us and who is the other side?

      http://www.dealey-plaza.org/~ramon/jfk/Never-Give-Up.jpg

      (*) Jeff Morley’s parlance.

      • Ronnie Wayne says:

        Ha. Feel free to click elsewhere yourself Ramon. You’ve taken Jeff’s comment to a different level.

        • Ramon F Herrera says:

          [Attempting to find symmetry where there is none, our esteemed Ronnie wrote:]

          “Feel free to click elsewhere yourself, Ramon. ”

          =================

          Ronnie, you are confusing:

          “Clicking” (a mouse operation) i.e., reading, which is covered by fundamental free will.

          with:

          “Typing” (a keyboard operation), i.e., emitting one’s opinion which is covered by the First Amendment and by the right that the owners of the site have chosen to transfer to us (active participants, contributors).

          Perhaps paved with the best of intentions, Larry attempted to shut down a topic (i.e., abrogating the rights of Jeff Morley and Tom S.), because it was making him uncomfortable and feel “weird” and you have the temerity to criticize me!?

          Let’s use Politico as an excellent exponent.

          Go to politico.com and take a look at the formal style, very civilized vocabulary used by the journalists. Next, scroll down and take a look at the style used by the readers: Not quite the same, is it? Professionals of journalism, owners of respected sites cannot afford to be seen as vulgar, loud, uncivilized and crass (unless your name is Donald Trump, that is).

          That does not mean that the author of the original article does not enjoy and approve precisely the reactions he hoped to elicit.

        • Ronnie Wayne says:

          Ramon, I have learned from your work. I just felt your ranting on Trump distracts from the intent of the topic of this thread, Trump and the CIA.
          I understand your anger. I wouldn’t vote for him for dog catcher.
          How would a President Trumf handle the CIA. How would they handle him?

    • Brian Joseph says:

      “(4) At this moment and unless they are incompetent, the CIA is preparing a strategy which will entirely depend on who is the victor, when the smoke settles the morning of Nov. 9, 2016”

      What amazes me is that there are people who believe that the CIA and/or other government agencies were involved in what happened in Dealey Plaza and a subsequent cover-up who also think that those same elements don’t manipulate or control domestic elections as they have in third world countries.

  14. Larry Schnapf says:

    @pat speer- dont forget Trump is friendly with publisher of Enquirer. The story could have been published to help Trump.

  15. Larry Schnapf says:

    @Ramon- i was not uncomfortable with your statements. I was simply saying this your statements were going well beyond the JFK FACTs theme of this website. The topic of this thread was why the question of if Cruz’s father was with Oswald lingers. You have clouded the thread with suppositions and speculation why Trump raised the issue. Your observations are best directed at a website that dabbles in political gossip, not for one based in FACTs.

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      “@Ramon- i was not uncomfortable with your statements. ”

      Well, it is clear that whoever wrote the following is not comfortable with the development of the thread.

      [Larry Schnapf:] “this thread is getting very weird and risks undermining the brand of this site. maybe its time to shut down this thread. You have clouded the thread.”

      Exactly where do you get the authority (moral or actual) to decide what undermines the brand of this site? Are you blind? Haven’t you noticed how Jeff Morley keeps on publishing this kind on material, feeding it to us?

      Allow me to be more clear: The people who decide what threads to move move away and which ones to keep alive are:

      (1) Jeff Morley

      (2) Tom S.

      If you have any complaints take it to them.

      • Tom S. says:

        If you have any complaints take it to them.

        Since I am approving Ramon’s comment I think it is appropriate to make it clear I offer no input related to topic
        selection or article appearance or reappearance with the exception of the “Comment of the week”. Articles move off
        the front page of the site as new ones are published above them. Older articles descend with the passage of time to
        more obscure pages on the site unless they are manually scheduled to reappear on this site’s front page. I offer no
        input in those editorial decisions. I am uninformed as to whether Jeff exclusively determines what articles to publish and when and on what page a given article is published or republished on.

        My position is comments editor.

  16. Ronnie Wayne says:

    Something Jeff did mention. Just for new or uninformed readers, what were AMSPELL and COINTELPRO? I know this is a boring, basic question for you Tom and many other readers. But somewhere out there is an inquiring mind that want’s and need’s to know. What was the Op that read Oswald’s mail while he was in Russia called?

  17. Ronnie Wayne says:

    To further define, “regarding the directorate (DRE), within the CIA the South Florida group was known by it’s code name AMSPELL.”

    http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassination-first-jfk-conspiracy-theory-was-paid-cia-1496582

  18. @Tom S.: Here is a comment I posted on the Ed Forum that I feel is appropriate & applicable here at JFK Facts as well. If Mr. Trump has a true interest in the murder of JFK 53 years ago, he (or his PR people & other spin masters) will probably see it better at both entities.

    ‘After a full week on the Internet searching here, there & everywhere for the alleged photo of Mr. Cruz Sr. & LHO having breakfast together in New Orleans 1963 and coming up with nothing at all, I have decided that if Mr. Trump actually saw this item somewhere & he wants my attention, he can always demonstrate his devotion to ‘Making America Great Again’ by telling one of his spin masters to post the alleged photo here at the Education Forum (or provide a simple, working link to it elsewhere on the Internet). This Forum is home plate to a multitude of JFK researchers, analysts, historians, authors, film makers & their peers that know the subject matter the best. Mr. Trump should be a regular lurker here if he truly has an interest in the despicable ambush & savage murder of President Kennedy 53 years ago in Dallas.
    It’s been alleged that Mr. Trump got his Cruz Sr. info from the unreleased CIA JFK files that investigative journalist Jefferson Morley has been locking horns with the Agency over in a Conquistador’s effort to obtain their public release (at a tremendous personal legal expense) for a long time. If so, Mr. Trump can also use his tremendous wealth & clout to pressure or otherwise influence the CIA & other entities to honor the law & free the enslaved files, regardless if he is POTUS or POTUS wannabe.
    It’s been said before that the entities withholding the secret JFK material are doing so to protect living persons that once did service of some capacity to any or all of the Intel operations active during LHO’s escapades. The recent Trump Cruz allegations suggests Mr. Cruz Sr. may be among that number. Perhaps Judith Baker is too. We won’t know until the secret files are released & analyzed.
    Mr. Trump has previously announced he believes LHO did the crime alone. Not voting for him for his single assassin belief does not automatically ensure the global public is going to get anything out of Hillary in regards to releasing the enslaved history contained in those withheld CIA files. The public is caught between a rock & a hard place on the unreleased JFK records.
    As for me, I’m not chasing after visual proof of Mr. Trump’s JFK global public allegations any longer. I’ve got better things to do in my life than chase shadows that aren’t even there. If Mr. Trump wants my vote, he has to do better than tease. I simply cannot stand a teaser of any sort or a poker player bluffing their way through an extremely weak or empty hand.’

  19. Richard Turnbull, J.D. says:

    “AMSPELL” — step by step, the unsuccessful coverup becomes unraveled — allegedly leading to Angleton and a few close, criminal associates.
    It’s amazing how much of the broad outlines were already revealed by the books by Mark Lane and Sylvia Meagher and the Texas Skeptics in and around Dallas-Fort Worth in the 1960s. Thus, the US mass media are accessories after the fact, rightfully criticized by the intrepid Jefferson Morley.

    • Ronnie Wayne says:

      I never really fully appreciated the relationship of the DRE and AMSPELL before. I read somewhere in the above links or elsewhere in the last couple of weeks of the DRE not just “happening”. I’d read it was a convergence of different anti Castro groups. I assumed they unified for their common cause and created the organization. What I read was the CIA created the DRE to control the groups and use them for their own purposes.
      So AMSPELL was the CIA Operation to control the DRE and Joannides was the Officer in charge of the psy-op/propaganda aspects. Given the Mexican sheep dip of Oswald, Phillips role in Mexico, and his proclivity for propaganda it’s hard to believe he and Joannidies were not in cahoots.
      To believe that their files might not be of value to the public is naive. FREETHEFILES.

  20. Ramon F Herrera says:

    [Richard:] “Thus, the US mass media are accessories after the fact, rightfully criticized by the intrepid Jefferson Morley.”

    =======================

    Couldn’t agree more. Here’s 4 examples of their deceitful tactics and strategy.

    (1) NBC, CBS:
    https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?15578-Roger-Feinman-on-CBS-s-cover-up-of-the-JFK-case

    (2) Why CBS Covered up the JFK Case
    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22763

    (3) ABC: 2003 – Paid by ABC News – Implemented Dale Myers, who was rewarded with an Emmy for his job.
    Measurements and data files: Secret.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM

    (4) PBS: 2013 – Paid by PBS Nova for their program “Cold Case” – Implemented by Luke and Michael Haag.
    Measurements and data files: Secret
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jfk-single-bullet-theory-probed-using-latest-forensics-tech/

    Sadly, the last two are current and attempt to use “science” and technology to defraud the public with bells and whistles, smoke and mirrors.

  21. Dan Clark says:

    On npr this morning I heard a former deputy director of the CIA characterize some of Trump’s statements, particularly about nato allies, as disqualifying.

    Interesting.

    i’d love to have been the host and turn that statement around on him and say “well, some would say that the Company setting up the patsy and working with the mob and others to murder their commander-in-chief would disqualify that agency from further ability to operate and call into question absolutely every report or statement they release on anything.”

    Btw can’t vote for trump because the slumlord is nuts but these are some very interesting times and that was a hell of an interesting comment from a former company guy.

    One can only speculate how insane they’ll get if a Putin sympathizer as it seems he is) gets elected.

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      [Dan Clark:]
      “these are some very interesting times and that was a hell of an interesting comment from a former company guy.”
      ========================

      Dan: If you see that as interesting -which it is, outstanding, thanks for publishing it- you must check this out:

      http://www.dealey-plaza.org/~ramon/politics/Kochs-Hate-Trump.png

    • Tom S. says:

      …i’d love to have been the host and turn that statement around on him and say “well, some would say that the Company setting up the patsy and working with the mob and others to murder their commander-in-chief would disqualify that agency from further ability to operate and call into question absolutely every report or statement they release on anything.”

      Btw can’t vote for trump because the slumlord is nuts…

      Trump does an impressive job of convincing his audience that there is merit in his unsupported claims. Who is “nuts,” Trump’s audience, Trump, those who are less persuasive than Trump is, or those who confine their claims to what can be reasonably supported by the existing evidence, such as it is?

      • Ramon F Herrera says:

        [Tom wrote:]
        “Trump does an impressive job of convincing his audience that there is merit in his unsupported claims.”

        ================

        Tom, I am afraid that while you are right, there is something even worse: the core Trump followers don’t really care about the truth.

        There was a very important JFK Facts thread about yesterday’s Trump (Bill O’Reilly).

        Pay special attention to the parts where the relationship between the truth and the Far Right are analyzed:

        —————————————

        “Some sectors (call them Social Conservatives, Far Right, Teabaggers, etc.) are totally convinced that they are being lied and cheated (“Obama could not possibly have been elected fairly!” “He is a Muslim, born in Kenya!” “The Republican Party is a nest of Che Guevara guerrillas! We are being invaded!” — peppering the dialog with “treason”, “treason”, “treason”) and *therefore* they are entitled to twist the truth or state an outright lie, such as “I heard the gunshot”.

        This event most likely increased [Bill O’Reilly’s] audience.”

        [Notice my prediction – I was correct]

        —————————————

        [Prof. Jay Rosen, professor of Journalism, New York University):]

        “Since his [O’Reilly’s, aka mini Trump] aim is so true and he hits that cord, his stories don’t have to be true”.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Ux5rdBu1c

        —————————————
        Jon Steward:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=iliH-67pvyk

        —————————————

        Please take a close look at the mentioned thread:

        http://jfkfacts.org/dismantling-oreilly-the-last-chapter/

      • Paulf says:

        Tom, good point. The fact that very large numbers of people are willing to ignore facts and logic and believe this dystopian view of America is more scary than the mere fact that there is a sociopath running for president.

        Fact is unemployment is near record lows, we’ve had a record 75 consecutive months of positive job growth totaling 15 million private sector jobs, the stock market is up more than 150% since 2009, wage growth and consumer spending have picked up, crime is on a long-term trend down and most big cities are being gentrified and are more livable than they have been in decades.

        Now I understand that not every community is doing as well as urban areas, and one could debate what would the best economic policy going forward or even who deserves credit for the economy.

        But Trump and his followers are convinced that America has become hellish in almost a post-apocalyptic manner that has no basis in reality. And in a lot of ways, that’s the story of the JFK assassination. Misinformation repeated loud enough and long enough becomes the perception.

        • Antonio D'Antonio says:

          Well said.
          It’s the partisan politics entertainment complex (PPEC) that tries to pass itself off as actual news that has contributed to this distorted view of what’s really going on in the country.
          Unfortunately, too many people are willing to make the PPEC do there thinking for them and are not interested whether what they are being told to believe is based on the truth. They just blindly accept the PPEC’s fabricated facts as gospel.

  22. Stephen Dale says:

    Guys. This was in terms Enquire. Untill people stop buying this piece of garbage stories like this will not stop. Did you ever see some of the stuff about Obama. Tragically, people believe it.

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      [Dale:] “This was in the Enquirer. Until people stop buying this piece of garbage […]”
      ============================================

      Stephen:

      That rag is not exactly in my recommended reading list. However, just to illustrate the complexity of the relationship between the JFK community and the media, consider the following. Please read this as background:

      “Jeff was not very interested in pursuing something that can be seen by some as a personal vendetta. He close the blog’s window to the O’Reilly’s criticism and Marie Fonzi persuaded me to leave that rat (my words, not hers) alone. She encouraged me to channel my creative and technical skills, to pursue this other, RELATED project (as you know the cause closest to her heart is children’s education):”

      http://jfkfacts.org/reporters-tape-exposes-bill-oreillys-big-jfk-fib/#comment-887538

      Marie (through Jeff) sent me the full recording from Gaeton’s old cassette recorder. The geek in me wanted to extract some extra info from the sound:

      (1) Determining, though analysis of voice delays, the precise distance between Gaeton and the other speaker.

      http://jfkfacts.org/on-jfk-fib-oreilly-hides-behind-a-former-colleagues-story/#comment-725526

      (2) Ascertaining with scientific accuracy that the person on the other side was indeed, Mr. O’Reilly.

      I don’t recall how much of this is in the public version of the audio, but when Gaeton was talking to somebody he said, in low, discrete voice:

      “You can contact me at -you know- the magazine” … and avoided mentioning its name.

      It turns out that the publication that blew the lid placed by the MSM, was none other than the National Enquirer.

  23. Larry Schnapf says:

    @paulf- it is not about facts but how the voters feel. elections have always been emotional, tribal experiences. And 70% of the voters feels the country is heading in the wrong direction. Trump is the outsider who is perceived as the change agent. Perceptions become facts. now, can we go back to JFK FACTs?

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      [Larry:] “70% of the voters feels the country is heading in the wrong direction. ”
      ===============

      35% want to go in one direction and 35% in the opposite. President Obama must be doing something right.

      We are not here to provide personal entertainment to you, Larry. Don’t you believe in Democracy, Capitalism and Competition, Mr. Strong Man? In forums, we vote with our clicks OR LACK THEREOF.

      The topic in this article/thread was chosen by Jeff Morley (multiple times) and the messages approved by Tom S. With your demands, you are claiming that they are not doing their job.

  24. “Democracy”? Pure hokum & bunk. Amerika has never been a ‘democracy’. It is now, and has been for the entirety of the postmodern era; a ‘Bernaysian Democracy’, ergo, a oligarchy in the guise of ‘democracy’

    Read: PROPAGANDA, by Edward Bernays

    “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”
    ~Edward Bernays (1928)

    You have all been suckled on delusional dreams.
    \\][//

  25. Larry Schnapf says:

    @willy- can you provide more information about the files held by Canada that relate to the JFK assassination.

  26. Ramon F Herrera says:

    [Jeff Morley”:]

    “repeated by Trump strategist Roger Stone”

    ======================

    Now Mr. Stone is threatening with a bloodbath if Trump loses in November:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-rigged-election-226588

    • Ramon F Herrera says:

      For those who believe that the pupil of Roger Stone, the best selling author, owner of a university specialized in this stuff, simply “says whatever pops into his head,” see counterevidence below:

      ==================

      “Unlike his comments over the weekend responding to the criticism of a Gold Star family and digging himself deeper into a hole, Trump’s rhetoric about an un-level playing field, be it in American politics or life generally, is a beneficial talking point, ONE THAT HAS TESTED EXCEEDINGLY WELL IN FOCUS GROUPS, according to a source close to the campaign.

      “The campaign believes any time Donald Trump is talking about a ‘rigged system’ is a good day for Donald Trump,” the source said. “It’s a reliable message he can lean on and riff on and develop pretty safely. IT RESONATES VERY WELL, especially with any Bernie voters who might be considering Trump.”

      http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-rigged-election-226588
      ==================

    • Paulf says:

      With friends like Stone, JFK murder researchers don’t need enemies.

  27. dan clark says:

    Roger Stone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBR0x9Kr2LU

    for whatever that’s worth

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