Question from a reader:
“.. Or at least knew of the plot involving Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Cubans associated with the Bay of Pigs project?”
No, I do not think Richard Nixon was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. There’s no credible evidence of that. The “Nixon did it” theory is one of many baseless conspiracy theories that serve to confuse the public about the facts of the JFK story.
Nixon, it must be noted, did not entirely believe the official theory of JFK’s assassination. Otherwise, he would not have pressed CIA director Richard Helms for CIA documents about “the Who shot John? angle” to the Bay of Pigs story.
Howard Hunt did make some murky statements late in life about a CIA conspiracy but he specifically rejected the idea that Sturgis was involved. He said nothing about Nixon.
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I have read so many books on the JFK murder and it still cannot be explained how so many of the people involved connect in some way. So many deaths by suicide, accidents of some kind, drug overdoses etc., etc., etc. It just seems to go on and on. I just finished “The Men On The Sixth Floor” and read it in one day. That’s unusual for me. I just could not put it down. I suggest you read it if you have not, do so. Several weeks ago I sent an email to one of my U.S. Senators asking why we still don’t know what really happened on 11-22-63. After several weeks and no reply I sent another email and in a few days one of his aids in DC called me. This kid was 28. To him the JFK assassination was ancient history. All I got was I’ll pass this on to the senator. I.m sure senator —— could care less. Cover up is still happening. I lived thru the assassination and it was horrible. I loved JFK. He had faults. Don’t we all. Now I’m 73 and would like to know what really happened to my President on 11-22-63.
very interesting to compare death/assassination details between kennedy, lbj, scalia and other important people involved….so many similarities in detail makes me think one has to be insane to be a politician….so who is to say LBJ wasn’t assassinated since his reported cause of death was a heart attack….yet he had time to fly to Texas to die? Scalia cause of death “natural”? Ha!
Wendell phipps,
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I think what is relevant is the “mob” connections to Nixon, Johnson, AND Kennedy. I also believe that BK clearly provided generally good insight regarding that period of time when citizens trusted their elected officials for the most part. That trust was grossly violated and the underbelly of the beast was exposed for what it had grown to be: contemptible toward the public trust and public in general.
“What makes ‘no sense’ today would be readily accepted, not even questioned, by a majority of the public in 1960.To say the country was naive is an understatement. The public were ‘innocents’, lacking in worldly knowledge and judgment. It has to be factored in when thinking with today’s sensibilities and far more worldly knowledge than those citizens of fifty years ago. Back then, any public official could get away with saying nearly anything. Existence in America somewhat resembled a quasi authoritarian state ‘where authority without accountability, walked freely, unquestioned and unjudged.” In that climate, events that seem illogical and challengeable today, would have been conducted without question for fear of retribution. It’s why they were often complacent.” Dulles absolutely held the public in contempt, as did Ford, Hoover, Johnson, Helms, and many of the CIA agents/assets loyal to Dulles. If Nixon did know about JFK’s assassination, Nixon knew enough to suspect from which quarter the plot originated and Nixon knew intuitively (based on his own plotting as vice-president with CIA and Dulles) that a conspiracy operated to murder JFK.
“Was Richard Nixon was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy?”
. Or at least knew of the plot involving Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Cubans associated with the Bay of Pigs project?”
____________________________________________________________________
Richard Nixon was no Angel, but He was ABSOLUTELY NOT involved in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK, nor did he have any knowledge of a plot involving Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis or the Cubans because there is no evidence that such a plot existed. There is no evidence in existence which connects Richard Nixon to the Kennedy assassination.
INFACT the only real physical and eye witness testimony evidence that exists points in the direction of Lee Harvey Oswald as the Lone Assassin.
The conspiracy community like to pass themselves of as experts and spin fictional stories and distort facts in such a way as to support
their own agenda in order to, well to cut a long story short, make money by writing books, etc.
HOW RICHARD NIXON LEARNED OF JFK’S DEATH.
Richard Nixon found out his former election rival had been killed while waiting at a red light in New York.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/johnfkennedy/10469290/How-Richard-Nixon-learned-of-John-F-Kennedys-death.html
Actually JH, Nixon has given different accounts of hearing news of the assassination over the years (see article), not to mention having apparent ties to Jack Ruby:
Richard Nixon’s Greatest Cover-Up: His Ties to the Assassination of President Kennedy Crime Magazine http://www.crimemagazine.com/richard-nixons-greatest-cover-his-ties-assassination-president-kennedy via @CrimeMagazine
To say Nixon was ‘no angel’ is a huge understatement.
Nixon plot against newspaper columnist detailed:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39157420/ns/politics/t/nixon-plot-against-newspaper-columnist-detailed/#.VLp-VwvEnEs.twitter via @msnbc
I don’t believe Nixon had foreknowledge, but later came to suspect the CIA’s involvement with references to opening up the “whole Bay of Pigs thing”. That’s not to say Nixon was not corrupt or uncapable of other heinous crimes, as related to by NBC News http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39157420/ns/politics/t/nixon-plot-against-newspaper-columnist-detailed/#.VIsboWfwuM9
No. He wasn’t. Lastly, this reminds me of all the hoopla around the George Bush photo of him at the TSBD after the shooting. As more photos emerged the creators of that nonsense disappeared into the woods too. Just nonsense.
Only if he were standing in the 6th floor window holding a tape-recorder and a 6.5 Manlicher Carcano.
“I do not think that there was a plot involving Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and Cubans.” Mr. Moderator (Jeff Morley), Mark Lane is at an advanced age and if you have any questions or criticism of the light he has shed on exactly such events, as documented in “Plausible Denial” and “Last Word” – whether challenging credibility of witnesses or otherwise – it would be thoughtful to assert them now, not after he is precluded from responding indirectly, or directly.
Veciana happens to be one of the most consistently credible witness in this whole area, and he put his life at serious risk by testifying about Phillips and Oswald (Veciana was shot but survived; and then framed and sent to prison). He had NOTHING to gain and everything to lose by even acknowledging he knew Phillips/Bishop. You need to read Fonzi in order to understand why Veciana is so important.
On the other hand, yes, Madeline Brown is a groupie and a liar.
“Veciana happens to be one of the most consistently credible witness in this whole area”
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I believe Antonio Veciana 99%. Everything except meeting LHO. Why? Because Lee was being handled by a puppeteer who had a higher puppeteer above.
Lee was simply too important. Our wives would never bring their expensive jewelry to a bad place in town.
The trio meeting in a bank would violate THE most important requirement: COMPARTMENTALIZATION.
Correct.
DAP, if he were Oswald’s case officer, never would have met with Oswald. DAP always would have used an intermediary to deal directly with Oswald. The intermediary and Oswald always would have had an ostensible reason for meeting or otherwise being together; that is, a cover story. Oswald would have had no direct contact with, no knowledge of, DAP.
The only possible exception, which would flout all principles of agent handling, might occur if DAP were acting on his own. But even in this case, his training and indoctrination would have been completely at odds with his meeting with someone he was handling. It would put him at too much risk.
As I recall, Mr. Veciana said he showed up early to the meeting with Phillips/Bishop; Mr. Veciana was the careless one. And he saw the Oswald meeting from a distance. I have respect for Mr. Veciana, but questions remain about this incident.
While Nixon was a sleaze ball I don’t think he was involved in any planning. Good chance he heard rumors about possibilities. He wouldn’t have taken the speaking engagement for Pepsi that put him in Dallas the night before and morning of the assassination. He would have been far away if he had advance knowledge.
Then again it is strange that he was coincidentally there in a city he or JFK rarely visited within an hour or whatever it was of each other.
From the tape: Referring to Hunt ;’he knows where the bodies are buried on this’. Referring to the CIA and The Bay of Pigs;’They were split down the middle’. These comments implicate the CIA in a cover-up, of what is not clear.
It’s possible to make a case that the CIA were, and still are, able to protect themselves by trading the Republicans and Democrats off against each other. The Kennedy mythology appears something the Democrats are fearful of being sullied, and the Republicans are fearful of association with murderers. Why can’t the American people see that their biggest fear should be of decisions being made in their Country by people no-one voted for?
“Her case of similar to that of Madeleine Duncan Brown: She saw and heard a few things and fabricated the rest. Parking lots seem to be important discovery places for her.
Another one: I cannot believe that Antonio Veciana saw Phillips-Bishop accompanying Oswald. Phillips would have to be the most inept agent, if he was parading Lee all over town.”
1) Madeleine Brown is simply the most important witness ever to come forward in JFK research. Based on what LBJ told her in room #434 in the Driskill Hotel in 12/31/63 – a date LBJ is CONFIRMED as being at the Driskill – Dallas, TX oil, US intelligence and of course LBJ murdered JFK.
2) Re: Veciana seeing Oswald with David Atlee Phillips? There is not need to ascribe competence to CIA or US military intelligence. I am sure we could find 10,000 examples of incompetence if we had time. Seems like Phillips was handling multiple assets and the Southland Bank building was a convenient place to have chats with them. And Antonio Veciana and Lee Harvey Oswald were 2 of his assets to take care of. Tell one to meet you at 1PM at Southland. Tell the other to meet you at 2PM. Then go back to your office.
Robert, on your Madelyn Brown point(#1), wasn’t that the night LBJ literally told her(and others) how the whole assassination happened?
I do not know what to think of the AV story about seeing DAP with LHO. It would of course violate all “tradecraft” for a CIA “handler” to allow one of his assets to see another. Why would DAP not simply set up the two meets at separate places? He could for instance have arranged to meet AV at the Dallas airport. Also if he was planning on using LHO in some kind of a plot re JFK (whether an assassination plot or even something short of that) why would he risk meeting LHO in a public place? That also makes no sense whatever. And whoever planned the assassination can hardly be called incompetent.
If history has shown us anything it is that the CIA is, at times, sloppy, Tim.
If you’d have been in Bethesda, I think you would have come away impressed with Veciana’s credibility. He got riled up when he realized many in the crowd would use his confession re Phillips to discredit the CIA, and went on a rant about how we need the CIA to protect us from our enemies, etc. He was really riled up, and quite clearly sincere in this.
I don’t see him doing that if he’d just went up there to stir up trouble.
Of course, it could be that he saw Phillips with someone, but was mistaken in believing it was Oswald. But that raises another question–WHY did Phillips lie about knowing Veciana? Was it just a knee-jerk reaction to his underlying contempt of congressional oversight? Or was he trying to hide something?
I believe the second option will be the verdict of history.
Maybe DAP had a plane to catch. I.E he had to meet both men in a short period of time. Maybe the showing of O to Veciana was to show him the import of circumstances he was in to shut him up. If so, it worked for years.
Tim. I thought your puzzlement was worthy of comment.
What makes ‘no sense’ today would be readily accepted, not even questioned, by a majority of the public in 1960.
To say the country was naive is an understatement. The public were ‘innocents’, lacking in worldly knowledge and judgment. It has to be factored in when thinking with today’s sensibilities and far more worldly knowledge than those citizens of fifty years ago. Back then, any public official could get away with saying nearly anything. Existence in America somewhat resembled a quasi authoritarian state ‘where authority without accountability, walked freely, unquestioned and unjudged. In that climate, events that seem illogical and challengeable today, would have been conducted without question or fear of retribution. Its why they were often complacent.
Richard Nixon was telling Roger Stone that Lyndon Johnson murdered John Kennedy. Richard Nixon’s code for the JFK assassination was the “whole Bay of Pigs thing” which was his indictment of the CIA in the JFK assassination. LBJ indicted Texas oil and “renegade intelligence bastards.” LBJ as a diversionary tactic indicted Fidel Castro many, many times behind the scenes.
I do think E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the JFK assassination. In fact “Dark Complected Man” – never identified – is likely a CIA connected anti-Castro Cuban who was acting as a spotter for shooters on the Grassy Knoll, jmho.
who planed to take down jfk in 1964?
[Jeff:]
“I do not think that there was a plot involving Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and Cubans.”
=======================
The Marita Lorenz version is specially comical. The initial part of her story is true. She was Fidel’s mistress, she worked with Sturgis, attempted to poison Castro and later was mistress of recently deposed Venezuelan dictator Marcos Pérez Jímenez. Now, the part about traveling from Miami to Dallas and witnessing the interchange of guns and money is ludicrous.
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKlorenzM.htm
Her case of similar to that of Madeleine Duncan Brown: She saw and heard a few things and fabricated the rest. Parking lots seem to be important discovery places for her.
Another one: I cannot believe that Antonio Veciana saw Phillips-Bishop accompanying Oswald. Phillips would have to be the most inept agent, if he was parading Lee all over town.
“Antonio: Let’s meet in a bank, so I can pay you and my silent young friend”? Ridiculous!
https://jfkfacts.org/assassination/translation-kennedy-was-killed-by-the-cia-says-a-former-agent/
While realizing that by necessity, it is impossible for the HPCH to be perfect, as it is investigated, it yields a remarkable degree of accuracy:
See two Warren Commission members who are deniers/denouncers of it:
• Richard Russell (Democrat)
• Hale Boggs (Democrat)
https://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/JFK_Assassination_Quotes_by_Government_Officials
Which brings us to the unavoidable question: Why did president Johnson select so many members from across the aisle?
Note: HPCH : Herrera Partisan Correlation Hypothesis