On November 22, 1963, railroad worker S.M. Holland was watching the presidential motorcade approach Dealey Plaza from a perch on top of a bridge known as The Triple Underpass.
In this rare 1970 interview, he describes his impression of the gunfire that killed the president.
“I saw a puff of smoke still lingering among the trees in front of the wooden fence. The report sounded like it came from behind the wooden fence,” Holland said.
More about the witnesses to JFK’s assassination:
VIDEO: Was there a gunshot from the grassy knoll? (Feb. 1, 2013)
‘What was going through my mind was that shot was coming right over the top of our heads’ (Nov. 22, 2013)
Missing JFK witnesses: two African-Americans on the grassy knoll (Nov. 20, 2013)
History Matters: What 216 witnesses to the assassination said about the origins of the gunshots.
43 thoughts on “The view from the Triple Underpass”
Dear John McAdams,
You don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about. So I’ll break it down for you and all the W.C. believers. Are you ready? Because I’m not going to do it again.
Oswald was innocent. The 1st shot came from DalTex roof, hit JFK in the back and exited his throat. The other shots came from the pergola, behind Zapruder. One of the pergola gunmen was Eladio DeValle, Cuban exile and member of Operation 40.
You want proof… take a magnify glass to the Moorman photo and look behind Zapruder, in the pergola. The lone assassin theory was garbage for gullible people, and you fell for it. Even when you’re own eyes told you the shot came from the front. Which by the why lines up exactly with the wound.
We’ll you ignore your eyes again to keep swallowing the W.C. garbage, or will you believe your own eyes and common sense? You can’t keep ignoring evidence unless you just want to.
If I can just correct my predictive text from errors made in my previous comments….the “Day The Dream Died” is well worth a watch …giving background to the assassination prior to events in Dallas….an overall view of the shooting and offering evidence of multiple shots having been fired that day. My interest started after buying this video on vhs format in 1988!!! I was -6 yes old when this despicable crime occurred I’ve been a member of Dealey Plaza UK I visited the November in Dallas Conference in 1996 & 2013 the 50th anniversary……..Although my namesake I am not related to S M Holland as far as I know For my sins I live and work in the UK many thanks once again!!!!
Holland also stated (regarding his WC testimony) “told Josiah Thompson he and his attorney attempted to correct the transcript. “We red marked…red penciled that statement from beginning to end because there were a lot of errors in it”. … Holland said apparently his corrections were lost somewhere along the line. “The Warren Commission, I think, had to report in their book what they wanted the world to believe.”
Pg. 454, Crossfire, Jim Marrs, revised edition.
The shots from two locations can be clearly heard on the Dictabelt recording, strongly supporting Mr. Holland’s observation. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nq-ZJ99qaCc
Allow the WC apologists their assertion that no GK shot occurred. Let them explain the blatant defiance of physics in JFK’s “back, and to the left” movement as bullets impact his head. John, Photon, Jean? The burden of proof rests with you to show us how Oswald’s shooting skills also included an ability to make bullets shoot a person from in front, from behind. Prove THAT and I most enthusiastically will endorse the WCR and accept Oswald as the ONLY shooter of JFK. I am most [un]certain the three titans of Official Truth can accomplish this Warrenesque feat for us on this forum.
As some long-time hunter I read once said, “I’ve shot a lot of game in my time. I never once seen an animal fall towards the shot.”
Just to clarify a little Bogman, that quote is from one of the witnesses in Dealy Plaza though I can’t remember which one.
Senator Ralph Yarborough, “the only senator from the Deep South to vote for the 1964 Civil Rights bill”, (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/28/us/ralph-yarborough-dies-at-92-cast-historic-civil-rights-vote.html)independently corroborated Mr. Simmons sighting of a puff of smoke from the Grassy Knoll. If Ralph’s not an honest unimpeachable source, I don’t who who would be.
I have never seen this before and it’s very good
At this point there are numerous witnesses that have seen the smoke , smelled the smoke, heard the gun shot, felt the gun shot and / or reacted directly towards the grassy knoll , plus the Zapruder film shows at least 1 shot from the front . Mathematically if that’s not 100% proof then it’s 99.99% IMO
Regardless of the above , I view his knoll shot was the 3rd “heard” shot statement credible . He gives good clarity on the scene which is very important for history .
If I was juror in this case, Holland’s and Newman’s testimony would be the most believable to me.
S.M. Holland’s sensible assessment is spot on. He heard a shot/report; he actually saw the puff of smoke rise 6-8 feet in that same vicinity at the same time; and, other eyewitnesses further buttress what he heard and saw with what they smelled (gunpowder). One could blindfold a 1000 people, and have them determine the difference between motorcycle exhaust or gunpowder, and 1000x they would know the distinct difference.
Yes, there were a lot of eye witnesses accounts that shots came from the direction of the grassy knoll, but the WC along with some who discredit such evidence did/do not want such evidence to garner any attention.
This is a somewhat strange preoccupation that presided the WC process of investigations.
Please note that the footage appears (in its entirety), to be excerpted from the 1966 documentary “Rush to Judgment” (RTJ) by Mark Lane (interviewer) and Emil De Antonio (filmmaker). The original documentary ran about 2 hours. De Antonio then unilaterally edited out about 1/2 hour and reissued the film as a VHS video in the late 1970’s, as is the version of the film most typically found, for example, uploaded in part or whole to YouTube. The number of 16mm B&W prints in existence of the original, full length film is probably dwindling every year. I saw the original during a visit by Mark Lane to the Duke University campus in the fall of 1975 and recall segments about witness deaths since the assassination that seem to be part of footage edited out before the re-release by De Antonio. The historical record and research community would be well served by digital re-issue of the original, full length RTJ, lest that valuable content be gradually forgotten and lost from our collective memory.
Why is Mcadams, Mr Cloak and Dagger himself (yes, Photon) and Jean D completely silent on this thread and Mr Holland’s consistent testimony and statements? They discredit every other eye and ear witness that doesnt support the WC, so where is all the usual “rhetoric” this time?
Jason, my guess is that McAdams, etc…can’t deny that Holland had an excellent viewpoint for the assassination.
Holland didn’t see a shooter, he simply believed a shot came from the Stockade Fence.
He also saw “smoke” that he interpreted as smoke from a rifle. But modern firearms don’t let out large clouds of smoke that hang in the air, and two witnesses said it was “motorcycle exhaust.”
You folks are doing the standard Conspiracy Thing and selectively using testimony that you find convenient. You are ignoring a larger number of witnesses who thought all the shots came from the TSBD.
You are also ignoring Lee Bowers, who had an excellent view of the area behind the Stockade Fence and didn’t see any shooter.
Your just as bad John.
Lee Bowers view of the fence could have been blocked by the cab of a small pick up truck, IF there was a truck and IF there was someone trying to conceal themselves behind it, Lee wouldn’t have seen them waving at him.
He was also working at the time and the last thing he is expecting is an assassination attempt.
More importantly, Bowers couldn’t see a vehicle on Elm after it went past a certain point.
That is, way up on the east end of the pergola.
So if he was still catching glimpses of the cars in the parade stream by like he said, the last place he would be staring at is the picket fence area.
Didn’t he say he was watching the parade?
The one on Elm?
Also the Haygood incident was down at the curb and the wind was blowing in the opposite direction, perhaps there was a large exhaust cloud from his bike, I can well imagine it but it ain’t going near the fence, remember also Haygood comes into the scene some forty seconds later.
He never got over the curb.
Now I’m not saying your wrong on all counts but you are reaching.
Holland either made it up or he saw what he said he saw. There’s ain’t no mistaking.
John, didn’t the WC ignore a lot of witnesses who thought shots came from the Grassy Knoll? IF the WC can do that, so can those of us who you say ignored the TSBD as a potential site.
mythoids, factoids, and false-oids, John. These modern weapons emit lots of view-able smoke (as anyone who has, for one example, seen the video of those guys in the big shootout in LA from about 10 years ago can attest); and you always cite Bowers, who in reality saw people move into position and then a commotion and clear indication of activity in a spot the no one was supposed to have occupied. Any more idea-oids, John?
Allen is correct. Smokeless gunpowder may not make great clouds of dense smoke, like the old black powder rifles did, but it is far from smokeless. Plus, smokeless gunpowder makes water vapour, which tends to condense into a cloud like mist just out from the muzzle of a rifle, depending on the climate and humidity..
And the view of Zapruder and Sitzman. Best spot to see the even. 16 paces from JFK’s headshot to his pedestal. Great comment on the knoll, the noises (or lack thereof most notably), the bench behind the wall, the African-American couple, glass…lunch bags..etc).
why is the government covering for the assination of JFk. I belive there is more to this story than what is being told. Everyone has their theories. here is another one, maybe it was the banking system that did it?!? 4 months prior to his murder, he signed an excutive order into law, excutive 11110, JFK special curriencies. He saw that the government was printing money with out anything backing it, at this time , coins had silver in it and money was being backed up by silver. The banking system knew that this would put them out of business eventually. Ironicaly, after his murder, LBJ, signed the coinage act in 68.(stateing that all silver was to be taken out of money, now the Fed had what they wanted, they could print money with out any backing, and so went the DOLLAR, (down). Before the coinage ACT was signed , It was like a 100 + years that our money had been backed up and made with silver, and i believe that “death” was the punishment if anyone made or distributed it with out silver in it. But like always, the government got away with it and around it. Just a theory! What do You think?
No, I don’t think that the Federal Reserve had ANYTHING TO DO with the JFK assassination, except with respect to the Kennedy Half Dollar coin minted afterward. If you read US history, following brilliant economists like John Maynard Keynes, FDR began (wisely I might add) taking the US off of the gold standard in the 1930’s. Tying an expansive modern national monetary system’s production and massive infrastructure to a metal is so absurd and antiquated as to be laughable. No, the elimination of silver from US coinage was the continuation of a trend begun well before JFK was president, as silver was becoming too expensive to justify for circulation. Kennedy himself was an admirer of Keynes’ theories, as was John Kenneth Galbraith, his Ambassador to India and close personal friend, as were many of his cabinet.
No, I think if you want to point a finger at suspicious people, Alan Dulles, Lyndon Johnson, and J. Edgar Hoover, along with maybe some high military people, to name a few suspects, better fit the bill as targets for historians to more closely examine. The Kennedy assassination looks more like a military/domestic political power coup than one over international finance, unless you want to talk about military contracts overseas than would have benefited (in Vietnam).
Well said JSA.
The power of any currency is backed by the strength of a nation’s economy (how many successful businesses own gold bullion?).
As for additional suspects, let’s not forget the cast of sketchy CIA characters and mobsters.
JSA September 12, 2014 at 10:44 am
And what men in the military do you think guilty of such a crime? That is a very serious charge to make without very credible evidence.
Responding to Bill Clarke:
Regarding the military, it’s speculation, Bill. But I would put Curtiss LeMay under very high suspicion. As for the military in general, they have good people and bad. That’s nothing new. As for speculation about a military/CIA coup, JFK himself hinted that it was possible, when he spoke with Red Fay, and old friend whom he put in a Navy position. Listening to the disrespectful back talk that LeMay and others said about the President during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I don’t think it’s naive to suspect foul play at all. Just common sense.
JSA September 12, 2014 at 8:54 pm
If I had killed every superior officer, up to and including Nixon, that I didn’t like, had no respect for and feared they unnecessarily endangered my men I would be a record holding mass murderer.
I expressed my disgust about some, I back talked some that I knew I could get away with it and I disobeyed some orders that exposed me and my men to unnecessary danger.
But I never killed any of them and in some cases it would have been easily done.
You get my point?
If there was a conspiracy, LeMay in conjunction with CIA elements would be my guess as well.
LeMay told Kennedy to his face that the diplomatic resolution to the Cuban missile crisis was the “greatest defeat” in U.S. history.
I could see someone like Lemay considering it his patriotic duty to take out a president that was “endangering” the future of U.S. security. He was, after all, the role model for the crazy general in “Dr. Strangelove.” I could see a cabal with CIA spooks like Angleton, Harvey and Phillips who had their own reasons to get it done.
Take a look the movie “Seven Days in May.” It was the movie JFK wanted director John Frankenheimer to make, and JFK ensured he could film scenes in front of the White House. JFK definitely thought a coup was possible in his day and time. The film could be seen as his message from the grave.
Bogman: “Seven Days in May” was a great film. I agree that it makes the same point about the military that I was alluding to, although I still can’t PROVE their involvement, I would like a deeper investigation done.
Bill Clarke: With all due respect, I’m not talking about your level of service. I’m talking about people at the top levels of the military, people who held a lot of POWER, people who would have been useful players in a major coup and/or coverup of a CIA domestic coup. There are so many lower level non-coms and brass who are honorable and distinguished men, who wouldn’t DREAM of hurting a fellow serviceman or who wouldn’t DREAM of executing or overthrowing an elected official. I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the big shots, who challenged the President’s authority the same way George McClellan did to Lincoln, and MacArthur did to Truman. Those kind of military people are dangerous and shouldn’t be trusted—they should be FIRED.
JSA September 13, 2014 at 6:18 pm
Thanks, I was just pointing out that most soldiers don’t and won’t do this crime.
If any general was involved in the Kennedy assassination LeMay would be the first name to pop in my mind. But I don’t believe there is any credible evidence for this. Is there?
Certainly agree on MacArthur and any other general that doesn’t toe the line on civilian authority. LeMay stayed too long. JFK should have fired him when he got rid of the rest of the Chiefs and Chairman he inherited from Ike.
Wasn’t LeMay George Wallace’s candidate for Veep in 1968?
One of the few unimpeachable witnesses. Amen.
When Holland was questioned by the Warren Commission, I certainly hope the WC didn’t tell him “You must be mistaken, it couldn’t have happened that way”, or words to that effect. Holland was right there to see it-no one on the WC was.
Holland’s statements to Mark Lane are totally consistent with Holland’s Warren Commission testimony, except his story to the Warren Commission contained finer detail:
“There was a shot, a report, I don’t know whether it was a shot. I can’t say that. And a puff of smoke came out about 6 or 8 feet above the ground right out from under those trees. And at just about this location from where I was standing you could see that puff of smoke, like someone had thrown a fire cracker, or something out, and that is just about the way it sounded. It wasn’t as loud as the previous reports or shots.”
Other witnesses reported hearing shots that did not all sound alike.
In 1992, when I first went to Dealey Plaza, I made it a point to stand on the Triple Underpass where Holland was for awhile and observe what he saw.Roughly, a couple hundred feet away on the horizontal, is the location near the corner of the picket fence where Holland heard the report and saw smoke. He had an excellent vantage point, appeared to be an intelligent certain man, and I believe him in conjunction with a large volume of other evidence that someone was firing from that position. I think the evidence of a Grassy Knoll gunman is much stronger than Oswald’s professed innocence in the Tippit, or JFK murders, as one can make a decent case for multiple scenarios.
Thank you Jonathan for the added detail from the WC testimony by Holland.
It is important because the ballistic evidence as analyzed by CSI Sherry Fiester shows that the head shot originated from the southeast corner of Dealey Plaza just forward of the Triple Underpass.
These reports would have been louder than the one that caused the smoke near the trees by the pergola.
Taken together I think the smoke and bang that came from the Grassy Knoll area were from a cherry bomb, a diversion for the shooter on the other side of the street. It did draw many witnesses to charge up to the picket fence near the pergola. Giving the real shooter[s] a chance to get away unnoticed.
Two of Sam Holland’s comments slipped past both the Warren Commission & his interviewer: A railroad detective was on the overpass during the ambush & Holland saw JFK standing up in his parade car as it turned the corner from Houston Street onto Elm Street. Questions not asked: Why was the railroad detective at the scene (had there been problems prior to the motorcade’s arrival?)and was he sure it was JFK standing up and not a Secret Service agent standing on the rear bumper? (some researchers believe that is why the Zapruder film’s turn was cut out of the film).
Unfortunately, the world lost this most valuable witness before those questions were asked of him. Some believe what this man & his fellow railroad men saw & reported was enough to sway a jury not to convict Lee Oswald for murdering President Kennedy (at best, an attempted murder conviction).
Thanks for your comment. I believe the extant Z-film edits-out the turn onto Elm. Zapruder said he started filming as the limo entered the turn. The beginning of the extant Z-film is a blink.
Holland told both Lane and the W.C. that Kennedy sat straight up (paraphrase) after the first shot.
What is your source Holland said what you relate in your first paragraph?
Working from memory, Sam ‘Skinny’ Holland was interviewed by the Warren Commission, Josiah Thompson (Six Seconds In Dallas), Mark Lane (Rush To Judgment video 1966) & CBS News (1967 Warren Report TV special). Both of his comments came from one or more of those sources. I’ll do some digging this weekend & provide you a concise answer. I still have all resources minus ‘Six Seconds In Dallas’.
The railroad detective is another witness that slipped through the cracks & was not identified or interviewed. Why he was at the ambush scene is also mysterious. Lee Bowers didn’t mention his presence or if he was the reason Bowers called DPD to stop & search a train departing the area (discussed about 1 PM on the complete DPD audio tapes). One of the DPD escort motorcyclists talks about the detective in a YouTube video. I believe it was officer Haygood. I’ll get you a link.
The ‘JFK standing up in his parade car comment’ I always took to be Holland mistaking one of the SS agents standing on the running boards of the car behind JFK until researchers noticed a point just before the turn onto Elm Street & the actual turn is missing from several amateur ambush films. I’ll get back with concise references. Best
After much digging I offer these references for verification:
_The Railroad Detective:
1. Witness Richard Dodd explains how he bumped into him behind the grassy knoll fence immediately after the shooting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgTWNmMcnFQ
2. DPD motorcycle escort officer Clyde Haygood describes recognizing the detective after running up to the overpass top & picket fence Western corner:
Clyde Haygood’s Warren Commission testimony:
(Haygood here states he ‘presumed’ the man he saw on the overpass was a railroad detective, in his short Fox News TV interview from 2003 he states he knew the man was a railroad detective.
3. Warren Commission testimony of S.M. Holland (Holland refers to several ‘plain clothesmen’ but not specifically a ‘Railroad Detective’: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holland.htm
I lost my copy of ‘Six Seconds In Dallas’ when the borrower never returned it to me. Josiah Thompson interviewed him in that book but I obviously can’t quote out of it presently.
_JFK ‘standing up in his parade car & waving to spectators around the Elm Street turn from Houston Street’:
1. Comments from TSBD employee & eyewitness Bonnie Ray Williams made in a CBS news TV investigation special broadcast over several nights in June, 1967:
(Part 2, 5:25 time mark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qTsPCSqgz4
[Note: I may be in error in attributing similar comments to S.M. Holland. Without access to ‘Six Seconds In Dallas’ I’m unsure]
_JFK’s guards riding on the bumper as JFK’s parade car traveled down Elm Street towards him:
Malcolm Summers 6th floor museum oral history (2002) (around 10 min time mark):
[The interviewer (Gary Mack) either wasn’t listening to Summers, didn’t understand him or for some reason failed to ask Summers to clarify what he said about 2 guards being on the back of JFK’s car on Elm Street)
Neither of the 2 DPD officers stationed on top of the triple overpass ( J.W. Foster & J.C. White) mentioned the railroad detective in their 1964 WC testimony. White stated a noisy train was traveling between he & Foster that prevented him from viewing and hearing the assassination.
Hope this helps you & Jeff Morley’s other readers. Advice: never lend your JFK research books out! (especially one destined to become a valuable collector’s item).
I carefully reviewed Malcolm Summers 6th Floor Museum Interview; and the Sam Holland Interview by Mark Lane: in neither do I see anything about JFK “standing up”. I am aware that there are such witnesses, but if Summers or Holland said any such thing, would you be so kind as to supply the precise source? Thankyou. David Lifton (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Holland may have seen SS Agent Clint Hill as he got to his stand-up position on the rear of the JFK limo.
“Holland saw JFK standing up in his parade car as it turned the corner from Houston Street onto Elm Street.”~Brad Milch
Where did you get this information? It is not in this filmed interview.
Is this not in fact an opportunity for you to promote the nonsense about the alteration of the Zapruder film? By making up something that Holland did not actually say.
. . . . .
What I wonder is how those who claim there was no shots from the “Grassy Knoll” account for the fact that so many people including motorcycle officers from the motorcade rushed up to that picket fence.
How do they account for the Warren Commission lying about Holland’s testimony to both the commission and the sheriff’s office. And the fact that Holland claims to have heard four shots, as well as seeing the smoke rolling out from behind the fence, and seeing Kennedy thrown back and to the left by the third shot.