The film is called Killing Oswald. I haven’t seen it but Mark Groubert has and here is what he said in his review for Crooks and Liars:
“Shane O’Sullivan’s new documentary, Killing Oswald is simple in design and stunning in its veracity. It assembles some of the top JFK assassination scholars and authors and lets them speak. This is something the American media is apparently too reluctant or simply too terrified to do. Possibly both.”
“Here we finally see authors Joan Mellen (A Farewell To Justice), Dick Russell (The Man Who Knew Too Much), John Newman (Oswald and the CIA) and David Kaiser (The Road To Dallas), among others, telling the audience what they have uncovered after years of research.”
Shane O’Sullivan means well, but he is no professional ferret, no professional investigator, no professional investigative journalist per se.
His book on the RFK assassination was a cut above, he did some excellent work on that, but unnecessarily wasted an entire chapter, and who knows how much expense money, in that (I’m guessing he was played) colossal waste of time trying to identify some casual bystanders, assuming them to be the assassins of well known identity.
Instead, had he pursued the more logical investigative course on a background search of so-called mystery witness — who didn’t fit the witnessed accounts of the description of the girl in the polka-dot dress — Valerie Schulte, he would have discovered that Shulte’s aunt and uncle both worked in the same classified section of Lockheed as did Eugene Thane Cesar, the part-time security guard by RFK when he was shot. He might have also discovered that Shulte’s father worked at Technicolor Corporation, on a classified government contract for Lockheed, and that the chief of security at Lockheed at that time was the former personal Secret Service bodyguard to VP Nixon, who left the Secret Service when Nixon lost his bid for the presidency against John F. Kennedy, and that Lockheed security chief would return to Nixon’s presidential campaign in 1968 after RFK’s murder.
Shane might also have discovered from perusing the Church Commission investigation that Lockheed at that time had a contract not only with the CIA, but specifically with the CIA’s MK ULTRA program.
Instead, once again Shane is wasting time on the fallguy, a patriot who was sacrificed by the swine of the shadow government, Allen Dulles, Harvey, McGeorge Bundy and their ilk, working for their money masters, the Rockefeller brothers!
Oswald was “squeezed” by the FBI (responsible for Domestic surveillance). This FBI “squeeze” included using Oswald as a witting “dangle.” Looking at Oswald’s post-defector employment, we see he lost jobs and blamed the FBI for interfering. The FBI “squeeze” may have been effective in coercing Oswald’s cooperation, because Oswald knew his “false defection” could be turned against him (which ultimately was). Hoover “knew” Oswald was being impersonated as early as 1961, involving a FRIENDS OF DEMOCRATIC CUBA (Bannister/Anti-Castro Cubans) deal to purchase 10 trucks (http://www.jfklancer.com/BFord.html), possibly in preparation for the Bay of Pigs invasion (CIA). This article shows right-wing anti-communist connected people already were aware of, and using, Oswald’s name. Hoover would assert after JFK’s assassination, that someone had impersonated Oswald in Mexico. Is it not curious that these same behind the scenes puppet-masters, again, show up in regard to Oswald’s New Orleans FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA/MEXICO sheep-dipping – Bannister/Ant-Castro Cubans/CIA/Hoover?
Many speculate about what was Oswald’s role, if any, in the JFK assassination. He was the set-up “Patsy.” How many times can the Mafia and CIA both tell you that they use this technique? Then there was the Military (JCS) “Operation Northwoods” which would intentionally sponsor domestic acts of terrorism as a pretext for blaming, then subsequently invading, CUBA. We see all these techniques in the Kennedy Assassination. We see the finger prints of all these groups (collectively as ONE) in the JFK murder and (Secret Service/FBI/CIA-Mafia/Military) cover-up events.
Lone Nut=National Security because Science.
The film itself is pretty good, I don’t think David Kaiser’s stuff helped but it’s a matter of opinion.
I was there when the movie played in London two years ago, there were about 20 people there, that’s including the director and the crew. I arrived a few mins late and fell asleep 2x as well, so left with the hump.
Bought the dvd and watched 3x since. The David Philips footage is a great catch, and I think Dick Russell has a calming presence and puts his stuff forward in an easy to understand way.
It helped me two years ago, but with all the knowledge I have gained since about LHO I would have stuck more to the timeline of Oswald in custody more.
And I still don’t like the diary part with the actor in that warehouse in the East End.
Even with the little ‘faults’ it is still one of the better docus around.
Again. The fact that Oswald (if in fact he did shoot Tippit) killed Tippit only about 150 yards from Jack Ruby’s front door on S. Ewing Street needs to be addressed. He says he was going to see a movie (according to his interview with Police). Ok. I’ll give that some credence (very little).
However, the fastest way to the Texas Theater (the only Theater near Oswald) would have been more easily reached by just walking all the way down Zang. Why in the world would a man (Oswald) who had no supposed knowledge of what was going on) start to behave so guilty (unless of course..He IS guilty).
So, Mr. Oswald goes zig-zagging all over the place to see a movie that he told Jesse Curry he wanted to see??? Makes no sense. Oswald was heading to Jack Ruby’s house. Tippit was stalking him.
Most Americans have no clue about the proximity of Tippit’s shooting scene to Jack Ruby’s front door. It’s been buried and just glossed over. If more had…they’d be screaming for another inquest.
I think he was guilty-but of what is not clear.Knowledge of a plot? Being an active shooter?
What ever it was, he was going to the Texas Theater for a reason: either a payoff for services rendered, or aid in getting out of Dallas. He really would not need an escape plan if someone else furnished him one.
Of course, he could have sat in the Texas Theater waiting for Ruby to come home after posting his ads.
I suspect that the Tippit episode upset the timeline and Ruby missed his chance to tie up a loose end.
Brad…I agree…Guilty of SOMETHING. Oswald’s actions do not speak to a man who is totally without some guilt (or a tremendous sense of foreshadowing). I look at the actions of Oswald, Ruby, and Tippit in the 1 hour AFTER the assassination as the indicator.
First Ruby: Here is a man who ‘loves’ the President enough to kill his slayer on Sunday but can’t spare the 20 minutes to watch his ‘hero’ drive past his position at the Dallas Morning News which is only a 5 minute walk to the corner of Elm.
Tippit: Here is a man who was literally coming apart-at-the-seams in the 60 minutes after JFK was killed. Seen racing up and down the street. Observed making/taking a call and watching the Exit Ramp (from Downtown Dallas), and even may have made the blip on the news clip which mentions a ‘suspect car stopped, IN OAK CLIFF, and subject apprehended (as announced in a clip on the local Dallas News feed). Was this Tippit stopping a Rambler and sending it on his was in the moments before he saw Oswald? I think so. Why was he jack-dabbing all over the area.
Oswald: President drives past his place of business and he doesn’t want to see the leader of the free world (even if he was a Marxist he would SURELY want to see the anti-Marxist ruler of the Democratic World drive past. If not to shoot him…then just to see him. Then he admits how he went home to N. Beckley…where his clothes were (how nice).
I think that the thing that makes me wonder so much about Ozzie, is the Bus Transfer Ticket. He clearly tells Capt. Fritz he changed his pants…yet, he takes the Transfer with him. WTF gives with that. Only explanation…he was going to off Ruby and then take a bus outta Dodge City.
All of which makes me wonder one thing: The Transfer Ticket. In Oswald’s hands after the shooting. In pocket for cab ride to N. Beckley. Pulled from pocket and then re-inserted into pocket of pants he changed into (where it was discovered later at his booking). I WONDER if it were possible that NITRATES could have been transferred from his hands after killing JFK and accepting that Transfer Ticket. Clearly Ossie didn’t wash his hands before he exited the TSBD and, IF IT WAS NEVER CHECKED, can it be checked now?
Richard Helms described Shackley as a quadruple threat at his inauguration into the CIA Hall of Fame in 1979. “Ted,” said Helms at the time, “Is what we call in the spook business a quadruple threat—Drugs, Arms, Money and Murder or DAMM! And Ted is a HOT DAMM!!”
Found this:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=73541
…apologies. Although born in 58 I’m a neophyte when it comes to getting into the weeds of this. …but I like it.
At the site of the Mary Ferrell Foundation you will also find declassified CIA/FBI/State documents explaining an expulsion order of one French OAS assassin (attempted assassination of President De Gaulle of France), Jean Souetre, in Dallas on the same day President Kennedy was murdered.
You will also find declassified documents about Pfc. Eugene B. Dinkin, stationed at an NSA site in Metz, France, monitoring the OAS (rightwing fascist paramilitary organization made up mostly of French and Foreign Legion deserters) and intercepted cables between the CIA station in Italy and an OAS site, detailing the proposed assassination of President Kennedy in Dallas between 11/23 to 11/28/63. (Mr. Dinkin was arrested and dispatched to Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C., where a CIA MK ULTRA team scrambled his brains and story with electro-shock “treatments” and schizophrenia-inducing drugs!)
Frontline special on Oswald says 8 seconds to shoot all shots. How is there a discrepancy, what is the origin of our knowledge of the timing here.
Frontline, PBS, PRI, etc. (various shows like The Takeaway, On the Point or whatever that crapshow is called) are owned by WGBH Educational Foundation in Boston, which is 93% financed by the Koch brothers since 2008.
Got that?
Carlos Hitchcock, the greatest sniper (USMC) in American history attempted, along with fellow sniper instructors at Quantico, to duplicate Oswald’s super-shots under various conditions and failed each and every time!
Got that?
Joan Mellen has a new book: The Great Game In Cuba: How The CIA Sabotaged Its Own Plot To Unseat Fidel Castro.
Recommended.
Joan Mellen’s work (A Farewell To Justice) is extremely important to understanding Lee Oswald’s world in 1963. Joan says in her most recent updates to her book at her website that ‘Lee Oswald was never alone; he was always in the company of intelligence operatives’. Professor Mellen also discloses that RFK knew about & was monitoring Lee Oswald, making him an additional high level figure interested in Lee Oswald prior to JFK’s murder. According to Mrs. Mellen, preventing the public from learning RFK knew about Lee Oswald pre-assassination is why RFK used his right hand man to wreck Jim Garrison’s investigation. Joan has been answering many questions I have about Lee Oswald & his public support of Fidel Castro in 1963 enacted without arrest from the FBI or Federal Marshals.
That is about the most bizarre story that I have heard . RFK knew Oswald? He wrecked Garrison’s “investigation” ? That is absolutely sick- how can anybody take that individual seriously? To imply that RFK had a part in a plot to kill his own brother is beyond the pale -and reflective of the utter bankruptcy of the conspiracy movement after 50 years of inability to exonerate Oswald.If “South Park ” ran a parody of Mellen’s work they would run scripts on the bottom saying ” yes, she really believes this”- because nobody in their right mind would believe the story possible.
Those familiar with Professor Mellen’s work can spot your 2 straw man setups. RFK being routinely briefed on active CIA & FBI covert operations does not mean he actually knew the operatives & he was NOT briefed of any active operation to kill his brother eithers. What RFK was told about Oswald will be known when the withheld JFK files are released and after the RFK files are scrutinized & analyzed. It doesn’t take much to guess what RFK was being told about Lee Oswald by those monitoring him simply by looking at Oswald’s actions in New Orleans & (allegedly) in Mexico City. RFK was most likely being told an operation was underway to get an operative into Cuba. Oswald had a pro-Russian & pro-Cuban resume that his handler assumed would appeal to Castro enough to let him inside the country. After the assassination RFK was probably told Oswald flipped for Castro or went rogue on his own. The files will tell us.
You owe Joan Mellon a huge apology, Photon.
How did the real conspirators get him to not have an alibi then flee the scene, kill a cop and attempt to shoot another cop ?
I think he was part of the conspiracy-assuming there was one. Does anyone doubt that he brought a rifle(“curtain rods”) to the TSBD that day? That doesn’t necessarily mean that he fired it at JFK.
the Package LHO brought was 24 inches long- A dissassembled Carcano is 38 inches long- there is a doubt-
The Major Question remains: How and why is LHO alive after the presidents execution? Was he supposed to take missed shots ala Gen Walker and realizes he better get a gun and hide pronto when JFKs head explodes? If shots are taken that miss and then LHO dissapears presumably to Cuba, the plotters still get their US invansion of Cuba and this threat to our Security is eliminated- If LHO is a pure patsy he is dead long before the ford turns on Elm Street- Something goes very wrong at some point and Ruby who has been engaged from Parkland to the Police Garage basement must be coerced to clean things up. What was the intended role of LHO that day and How and why is LHO alive after the presidents execution?
Who measured it?
Frazier said the gun was held at one point under the arm pit and in a cupped hand – for a man of Oswalds size this would mean 2 feet or less- WCR says he must have been mistaken- Ruth P offered 2 feet as an estimate which would be a significant departure from 38+ Inches when accounting for packaging- All of this is fairly secondary- LHO brought something special that day to the DSBD (Communication Devices?) and must have had a role to play in a conspiracy but he seems to have gone off the rails when JFK was actually killed- What I think anyone who wants to argue against the WCR findings must do FIRST is come up with a realistic scenario about what LHO was doing that day and explain why a Patsy would be allowed to freely travel around the building before and after the killing. In my 40 years of study I have never heard a convincing explanation for the verifiable chain of events concerning LHO’s actions that day since what we know for certain does paint him as a lone nut killer. It is all the strange events surrounding the execution and the fact that JFK is shot in his Adams Apple and slaughtered by high tech ordinance that strikes him just forward of and above his right ear that is an issue- I think my theory that Oswald was taking Pot Shots at JFK ala Gen Walker takes this problem on squarely- It would be interesting to hear if someone can offer something more tangible.
[rollo:]
“Does anyone doubt that he [Lee] brought a rifle(“curtain rods”) to the TSBD that day?”
===============================================
Affirmative. That would be Buell Wesley Frazier and sister (the only people who saw the package). They emphasize that there was no way there was a rifle inside. In addition to the dimensions, you can easily tell by the “visual weight” as the bag moves around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUi-QdO4UQ
“Buell Frazier publicly debunks the WC curtain rod/rifle theory.”
Those plans were probably worked out the previous night at the Murchison meeting. LBJ and Conally were there, as was Mac Wallace, whose fingerprint was discovered on the 6th floor soon after the shooting.
There was no Murchison meeting or dinner. This false story has raged for years with the conspiracy crowd. No less an authority than Gary Mack, who knew Madeline Brown for some 30 years called her a “liar” and a “con” artist. Firstly, Murchison Sr. was not in Dallas that day or evening. In an exchange I had with Gary several years ago, he told me MB stated Hoover showed up for the dinner being driven by a black chauffeur. Hoover never had a black chauffeur. MB stated LBJ showed up late for the dinner but film exists of LBJ entering his hotel and never leaving for the evening. I found the Madeline Brown issues fascinating over the years and spoke with Gary numerous times about this subject. MB told many different stories that were all deemed lies. In an exchange with Jim Fetzer, Gary stated:
Did you know the Murchison party started about 8pm? No wait, 11pm, no wait, it was about 1 in the morning, that’s i!. Madeleine told me all three versions over time some twenty + years ago. Made me laugh and laugh and laugh. Didn’t know about that, did you? That’s why a debate is so pointless. There is so much you don’t know. Same with Ralph. I’ll put it out there when I’m good and ready, Jim.
“No less an authority than Gary Mack”~Paul May
That’s a joke right? That’s like saying no less an authority than Vincent Bugliosi, or Gerald Posner.
Hey how ’bout throwing in Allen Dulles and Gerald Ford for good old boy measure?
grin
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No witnesses put Oswald at the scene of the crime — you’ve obviously never read the Warren Commission Report!
Watching the documentary. It’s become to clear to me that Oswald was supposed to get a visa to Cuba so it would be in his possession to frame him as a Castro assassin who would try to escape to Cuba. Barring that, they at least had ‘evidence’ of his attempt to do so.
Hmmm. Your observation, in conjunction with Joaanides paying for the first “Oswald/Castro did it” disinformation article within 24 hours of the slaughter of Democracy might lead a reasonable thinking person to conclude some were conspiring to murder JFK. FREE THE FILES and prove these theories wrong.
I just finished watching it. This is a very slow paced documentary but highly informative and lays out the many reasons it appears that Lee Oswald was an intelligence asset and how his activities in New Orleans and Mexico City were part of a larger plot to frame him.
There’s a good amount of time spent laying out the background behind JFK’s Soviet and Cuba policies (something that the NatGeo film ‘Killing Kennedy’ only skimmed through).
I mostly liked how they used actors to dramatize some of the statements of Lee Oswald and David Atlee Phillips.
Excellent documentary. Highly recommended.
I would be interested in having someone who knows a lot about Oswald, Jean Davison, watch this film and then comment. She might be able to point out if there are any inaccuracies in it.
Thanks, JSA. I’ve only watched the trailer but noticed a couple of things.
It’s very unlikely that Oswald knew any “secrets about the U-2” to take to the USSR (the Russians already knew more about it than he ever did).
A narrator claims that while Oswald was in New Orleans he was “definitely being watched at that time, closely, by the CIA’s counterintelligence people.” Since I don’t plan to rent the video, could someone who’s seen it please tell me what is being referred to there?
“A narrator claims that while Oswald was in New Orleans he was “definitely being watched at that time, closely, by the CIA’s counterintelligence people.” Since I don’t plan to rent the video, could someone who’s seen it please tell me what is being referred to there?”
The film touches on the fact that the Fair Play For Cuba Committee was being targeted by the FBI at the time when Oswald’s public appearances as a representative of the organization began. It also mentions Oswald’s interactions with the DRE group and the fact that Carlos Bringuer was a CIA asset. It’s very likely that both the FBI and CIA were watching Oswald closely that summer and were aware of what he was doing in New Orleans.
Thanks for those details, Neil. None of that shows that Oswald was “definitely being closely watched.” He showed up on the CIA and FBI’s radar at times, but that’s not the same thing.
The CIA had a 201 file on Oswald and read his mail. It’s an established fact that he was being watched by the CIA as well as the FBI probably from the time he returned to the US from the Soviet Union.
See Morley’s interview with Jane Roman, who admitted point blank that Oswald was being watched closely by the CIA in the months before the assassination, and seemed to imply that the CIA had some kind of operational interest in him.
Neil, The CIA opened a 201 file on Oswald in 1960 after he defected, as it did with other defectors. Here’s the HSCA’s explanation of a 201 file:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=69268
Oswald’s pre-assassination 201 file is available online as Warren Commission Document 692 and here:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/docset/getList.do?docSetId=1560
I don’t think the CIA “read his mail” in this country, with the possible exception of his letters to the Soviet Embassy (the Embassy’s mail was being monitored, not Oswald’s.) How was it established as a fact that he was “being watched”?
Jean,
The idea that the CIA wasn’t really interested in Oswald prior to 11/22/63 has been exposed as a lie by Jeff Morely and others.
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/was-jfks-assassination-a-conspiracy/unanswered-questions-about-the-cia-still-surround-jfks-death
The only question is whether he was simply a person of interest due to his public advocacy for Cuba and the FPFCC or was he an intelligence asset?
The FBI admitted they were watching him and had to do reports monthly. The ONI had a large file on Oswald but blocked the release of the files and now refuses to dicuss them. And do you honestly think there is nothing about the DRE and Alpha66 in Joannides CIA files? (that may relate to Oswald)
I am of the opinion that LHO did have technical knowledge that would have been very highly classified.
Oswald was a radar operator, and according to his superiors a pretty good one.
I don’t expect most to be aware of the fact that radar and comms gear are not exactly user-friendly devices and to achieve proficiency requires some level of understanding and obviously the intelligence to do so.
Given the technology of that time and the fact that Oswald also appears to have also had some maintenance duties, I’d say he had a lot of classified knowledge.
At Atsugi, he would have been using state of the art materiel from Collins, Raytheon, Hughes et al, which was all part of a classified program.
You cannot assume that since the Soviets could “track” Sputnik they could detect U2 flights because they are rather dissimilar tasks.
Knowing the height, speed, the rates of ascent and descent and other flight parameters as well as the radar parameters such as sweep rate and pulse frequency and bandwidth was highly valued information.
Jean Davidson,
What is your basis for the statement “It’s very unlikely that Oswald knew any “secrets about the U-2″ to take to the USSR”? There is testimony in the public record about the information he would have had access to as a result of his assignment.
Larry Schnapf
Larry,
This CIA document on Oswald’s possible access to info on the U-2 was classified until 1993:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=99923&relPageId=2
Oswald may’ve seen the U-2 plane take off and land on his radar screen, but so could other radar operators in the area–that part couldn’t be kept hidden. Oswald had a low security clearance and he left Atsugi in November 1958, a year before he defected.
According to Wikipedia, “Soviet intelligence was aware of encroaching U-2 flights since 1956 but lacked effective countermeasures until 1960.”
So in effect, you’re saying that prior to Oswald being in the Soviet Union, the Soviets “..lacked effective countermeasures until 1960.”
Contrary to what Mr. Helms attempts to portray, a U2 would have had such different flight parameters that it would have been OBVIOUS that it was not regular military flight traffic.
How many other non-U-2 aircraft would have been displayed on radar at an altitude of 70,000+ feet..?
Relying on Richard Helms…? Really..?
And, the U-2 shot down originated out of Pakistan, not Japan.
The Soviets tracked the U-2 from the beginning. They knew its altitude. Oswald’s radar would’ve had a limited range, while the Russians could track it long distances using multiple radar sites. What would Oswald know they didn’t?
The secret part of the U-2 program wasn’t visible to spectators. It involved the cameras, the areas to be filmed, routes, etc. The Atsugi base’s radar crew had no “need to know” any of that.
Soviet fighter jets couldn’t operate at the U-2’s high altitude but by the time of Powers’ flight the Russians had an effective surface-to-air missile that brought him down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina
Oswald left the Atsugi base in November 1958, twelve months before he defected, so even any gossip he might have heard would’ve likely been old news by then.
It’s okay with me if Oswald spied for the Russians. I just don’t see evidence he could’ve known anything of value about the U-2.
With today’s information concerning Jane Roman interview , the CIA’s top secret LHO Mail opening etc, it can finally be reported as fact that LHO was tracked by the CIA at the highest of importance. The Mail opening program was one of the most secret ( also illegal ) domestic programs by the CIA and this new piece of information in 2013 is critical to further understand the CIA and LHO relationship.
Jean Davidson – With the declassification of the CIA David Robarge report – any CIA document that supports the Warren Commission and CIA’s original LHO narrative can no longer be used to support the Warren Report
So I’m assuming your above posts, CIA evidence and support of the CIA tracking of LHO as “routine” was made before the CIA declassified its benign cover up report ? Which is very understandable as you were answering without the facts we know today.
I’m curious as I have yet to read your book, but how have you handled the Robarge Report in terms of using CIA evidence and documents to support your LHO/WC beliefs. Also the use of such CIA evidence to disagree with other researchers.
Case law makes it that such evidence be discredited in a court of law ( even with civil liability potential ) so have you added a disclosure where CIA evidence is used ? Or do you intend to update your book to remove such CIA evidence? I am not attempting to discredit your work as you cite other credible government evidence. This is purely from a factual and accuracy standpoint as I view it as critical for any researcher on either side to make a best efforts approach for accurate reporting.
Mr. McAdams – I also have the same question and curiosity for your website. Will you be removing such CIA evidence ? Or adding additional disclosures ? Again no fault of your own, what a debacle lol .
The CIA was an investigation agency for the Warren Commission report so it’s critical all researchers fit this new disclosure into their writings to ensure accuracy – critical for both sides as the conspiracy researchers have made accuracy errors as well. It’s important both sides at a minimum agree to a best efforts in accurate reporting and mission to discover the truth as matters we can all agree too.
Thanks to both of you in advance , sorry for the long post but the Robarge Report may now be the most important report regarding the JFK assassination.
DB,
The mail opening program, HTLINGUAL, monitored many thousands of letters from the Soviet Union and China for over a decade, according to this site:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/htlingual.htm
This secret program covered international mail coming into New York City, but not domestic mail.
If I remember correctly, David Robarge’s report said that the CIA didn’t tell the WC about HTLINGUAL or about the plots to kill Castro.
There was no “CIA evidence” relating to Oswald’s guilt in the assassination. I didn’t rely on the CIA to “support my beliefs.” Oswald’s own actions on 11/22/63 condemn him, imo.
I don’t agree that LHO “was tracked by the CIA at the highest of importance.” Why would they? When he returned to the U.S. he became the FBI’s responsibility as a potential security risk. The FBI interviewed him but sometimes lost track of where he was living. Neither agency had reason to think he was dangerous. You might say he wasn’t “Oswald” yet. He was an oddball who defected to the Soviet Union and then came home.
“Neither agency had reason to think he was dangerous. You might say he wasn’t “Oswald” yet. He was an oddball who defected to the Soviet Union and then came home.”~Jean Davison
Really Jean?
. . . .
“Once Oswald defected to Russia in 1959 the FBI opened up a file on him for security purposes. But at the CIA there is a curious, and suspicious, vacuum. Richard Snyder of the American Embassy in Moscow sent a cable to Washington about Oswald’s defection. But the exact date the CIA got it cannot be confirmed (p. 24). Further, the person who received it cannot be determined either. Since Oswald was a former Marine, the Navy also sent a cable on November 4th. This cable included the information that Oswald had threatened to give up radar secrets to the Soviets. But again, no one knows exactly when this cable arrived at CIA. And almost as interesting, where it was placed upon its immediate arrival. (p. 25) This is quite odd because, as Newman points out (Chapter 3), Oswald’s close association with the U-2 plane while at Atsugi, Japan should have placed alerts all over this cable. It did not. To show a comparison, the FBI recommended “a stop be placed against the fingerprints to prevent subject’s entering the US under any name.” (Ibid) So, on November 4, 1959, the FBI issued a FLASH warning on Oswald. This same Navy memo arrived at CIA and, after a Warren Report type “delayed reaction”, eventually went to James Angleton’s CI/SIG unit on December 6th. Angleton was chief of counter-intelligence. SIG was a kind of safeguard unit that protected the Agency from penetration agents. It was closely linked to the Office of Security in that regard. But as Newman queries: where was it for the previous 31 days? Newman notes that the Snyder cable and this Navy memo fell into a “black hole ” somewhere. In fact, the very first file Newman could find on Oswald was not even at CI/SIG. It was at the Office of Security. This is all quite puzzling because, as the author notes, neither should have been the proper resting place for an initial file on Oswald. This black hole “kept the Oswald files away from the spot we would expect them to go-the Soviet Russia division.” (p. 27)
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/newman.html
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Amid all that wishful speculation, Willy, the writer you quote seems to indicate that the CIA wasn’t paying very much attention to Mr. Oswald.
“Willy, the writer you quote seems to indicate that the CIA wasn’t paying very much attention to Mr. Oswald.”~Jean Davison
To the contrary Jean, the writer I quote is indicating that the record was sanitized of the documentation proving the intense attention being paid to Oswald.
That author is John Newman, an expert in the codes and document handling of the Intelligence services.
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I know who the writer is, Willy, and “the record was sanitized” is spec-u-la-tion.
Well supported spec-u-la-tion is usually described in other ways…
In other words, the assertion that there are documents or any series of documents that could expose a conspiracy is by logic an oxymoron?
Leslie or Jean, where is any background info in the record, of MI 112th commanding officer, Robert Jones?
HSCA failed to provide any background, despite the man’s name being as common as Smith. Why are some of us
curious about so much while others seem committed to accepting everything out of the ordinary as ordinary, and
defending that it is so. I quelled the claim that Col. Jones was Robert Ellis Jones, but the government could have
done that by 1978 if they simply disclosed even a below average detail of the longtime US Army officer’s history.
The name Jones should have instigated an effort to distinguish this particular Jones, for the record, above all other
possible Joneses. It is common sense, especially considering his role and the details in his testimony.
We are left to wonder about so much, but some of us refuse to wonder, but instead to attempt to justify the inexplicable.
That does not seem to add to clarity. Why not either find the actual Jones, as in the example I laid out above, or simply
admit that not enough is known, which seems more reliable than providing a speculative explanation of the inexplicable.
You’re misinterpreting what I said, Tom. I was referring specifically to the quote about the period immediately following Oswald’s 1959 defection, when records coming in apparently didn’t go to one specific place. The reason for that is actually unknown. You can spin it into something suspicious as Newman did, but it’s still speculation. (The HSCA found that the CIA was slow to open 201 files on other defectors, not just Oswald, e.g.)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=800&relPageId=232&search=“201_file” AND defectors
Everybody knows the Hosty note was destroyed, Humes notes also. I wasn’t referring to any of that as speculation, only the specific quote Willy put up here.
Okay, Jean, you are correct, I did misunderstand. Have you read Richard Schneider’s 1979 WaPo article?
How closely does it compare to what we know now? Do you think Schneider might have been more helpful to
his legacy, and to the American people if he had not written this article, or does the overall value of it redeem it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/2012/01/31/gIQAWijIgQ_story.html
This presumes that someone introduced sufficient reason to research Col Jones or any facsimile of that name. Where are the names that evaded scrutiny? Is that not the mark of a successful crime, for the perpetrators to go undetected? Was that not the role of the perfect patsy, for authorities and investigators, researchers and journalists, authors and historians to follow his trail from age dot to his murder in police custody? Vince Salandria said it best.
“From October 1949 to September 1950 Snyder served in the Central Intelligence Agency; by his own account, he had no further links to the agency after that date,[2][3] although according to Agency records, he was used as a “spotter” at Harvard during his studies there to identify persons of potential interest to the Agency.[4]”~Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Edward_Snyder
What are the chances that Snyder was in fact still CIA under diplomatic cover at the Soviet Embassy at the height of the Cold War?
It is my opinion that the chances are very good that Snyder was still CIA when he was dealing with Oswald. I would assert it would be naive to take his story in the Washington Post at face value.
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Not sure what you’re referring to re the Washington Post article, Tom. On a quick reading, it seems very similar to his WC testimony.
Snyder did not give as full an accounting as he was capable of, it would seem.:
https://22novembernetwork.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/another-jfk-mystery-lee-harvey-oswald-and-the-old-man-in-ward-7/
I eagerly await an open-minded presentation of the Lee Harvey Oswald story. The basis to understanding the nature of the unsolved murder of JFK is determining who manipulated Oswald into his patsy role.
JFK’s political enemies were on the “rightwing” not the left where the “sheepdipping” of Oswald occurred. I used to compartmentalize Kennedy’s enemies -the cia, mafia, oilmen, LBJ, minutemen, JBS, and military industrial complex. all along the threads were so obvious -all were threatened by JFK-RFK and all were deadly. They all overlapped – example-many of the texas oil people were cia and they backed LBJ’s political career. HL Hunt could bankroll the JBS and minutemen who were gunrunners for the anti-castro Cubans. This got into the cia and military intell as they had a psych warfare plan to blame Castro for an attack on the U.S. as a “pretext” to invade Cuba and take Castro out once and for all. The assassination was all about the linking up Castro, the operation worked, but the invasion into Cuba never took place. Vietnam served the cia -military complex well, but i’m at a loss why Castro was avoided.
I totally agree. I used to compartmentalize those groups as well, but they are closely linked by shared politics, business, families, social, college and military ties, illegal operations, etc.
larrywheeler asks:
“but I’m at a loss why Castro was avoided.”
(1) Because Oswald survived the assassination and was in custody. And government insiders – LBJ and Hoover – knew within 24 hours that he had been impersonated in Mexico City. They knew exactly what it meant. Would Oswald eventually name names, including FBI and CIA? In a fair trial led by a non-government team of world-class attorneys/investigators, how much evidence would the government have to suppress? And how would that look to citizens and jury members who were being asked to believe that Oswald was an unaffiliated nut or a hit man for Castro?
(2) The civilian government had to make sure that it was in control. In a coup, the plotters try to dominate the narrative so they can manage public perceptions. In this instance, a potential nuclear confrontation with the Soviets was on the line . . . or at least LBJ thought so. [Examples of the importance of narrative: the Gulf of Tonkin lie; the Hill & Knowlton PR campaign preceding HW Bush’s Desert Storm; the Cheney administration’s management of lies leading up to Shock & Awe.]
(3) Did the government have enough evidence to successfully link Castro to Comrade Oswaldskovich? No. Castro would have been the LEAST likely person to order JFK’s assassination. Castro certainly would not have relied on Oswald to do the deed. Everyone in Washington knew it.
‘. . . the left where the “sheepdipping” of Oswald occurred. ‘ Can you elucidate? Not sure what you mean here. thanks
And quite a bit of the overlapping took place at the Dallas Petroleum Club.
I request readers to compare the photo of the person above (before the trailer starts) with famous marine photo. We’ve been told countlessly that they’re photos of the same person, Lee Harvey Oswald. But if we block that message and just use our own eyes and brains, it’s pretty easy to see those are photos of two different persons. Different noses, chins, hair, cheeks, eyes.
People change. What would be the point of the wacky ‘Harvey and Lee’ theory? If two kids start out looking alike, won’t they change over time anyway? I know identical twins that just look like your average brothers. It’s one thing to claim that an individual represented himself as Oswald as part of an unconnected intelligence operation, or even to set up Oswald as the assassin, and another to claim some decade long operation to confuse unknown parties for unknown reasons.
I purchased the video and would recommend it to anybody who wants to see the many sides of Oswald – particularly as they relate to his association with intelligent agencies (CIA, FBI)… The video includes interesting film footage and/or photographs of Phillips, Veciana, Nagell, De Mohrenschildt… The documentary clearly shows the parts of Oswald story which the mainstream media avoids…
By the way, Shane O’Sullivan was recently interviewed on BlackOpRadio and discusses this documentary project…
I purchased it too. Great stuff.