Mary Moorman Breaks Her Silence – Interview from BAAM Videos on Vimeo.
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The crown jewel of Mr. Morley’s work details his discovery that a retired CIA officer named George Joannides was called back to Washington to stall a re-investigation of the assassination by the House of Representatives in the late 1970s.
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Morley’s latest investigation, CIA and JFK: The Secret Assassination Files, available on Amazon, provides the fullest account of the role of CIA operations officers in the events leading to the death of JFK.
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25 thoughts on “Dealey Plaza eyewitness: Mary Moorman”
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If you go back and read the original UPI story, Merriman Smith of the UPI quoted the secret service as saying automatic weapons were used.
There is evidence of a four+ shot scenario:
Shot#1: to test reactions (silenced); hit curb, injured James Tague (Z187)
Shot#2: JFK Frontal throat wound (Z220-224
Shot#3: (silenced) JFK Back wound drives JFK down in seat (Z231-233)
Shot#4: JBC Back, Chest wounds; Wrist & Thigh wounds (silenced) (Z246-254)
Shots#5&6: JFK back head wound; JFK front head wound (Z212-315)
This scenario gives the 3 heard shots theory; accounts for Tague and the curb shot, as well as SS Kellerman’s claim that there was a “volley of shots came into the car.”
I haven’t seen much commentary about this but it appears in the Nix film there’s a bullet strike on the pavement after the head shot. When slowed down you see the strike and a tiny puff of smoke and a family of three that were standing 8-10 feet away from that hit are startled and jump.
not sure where that shot would have originated but it indicates (imo) at least a fifth shot.
And you can clearly see the car slow to a crawl n the mix film, you see the brake lights as well as the motorcycles catch up quickly which adds context
It is very significant that Mary Anne Moorman heard a sequence of shots that were to the effect of one shot shortly followed by two more shots fractionally apart. She succinctly stated as such. There are other witnesses who were close to the event who also described a like sequence of three shots.
The Warren Commission clearly avoided any witness accounts that contradicted a lone gunman theory.
The location of origin, sequence of and number of shots is still impossible to fully know. I can think of four sources that combined make partial sense to me.
Our Government via the HSCA and the dictabelt audio tape concluded there were four audible shots. Thus a conspiracy.
Then we have the witness statements the Warren Omission used selectively or ignored (e.g. Ms. Moorman).
Then we have witness reaction on film and in photographs.
The first shot seen in the Zapruder film to me is the one Dr. Perry reported that afternoon as an entrance wound. No reaction to it on film. Small caliber and or silenced?
The next reaction on the Z film is a slight lurch forward. The back shot? No crowd reaction I see. But, is it what SSA Ready (?) is looking back and to the right for in “the” Altegens picture?
Somebody shot from the TSBD. Enough witnesses report hearing shots from the rear it’s likely at least one came from there, the TSBD and or the Dal-Tex building. A planned distraction shot? JFK’s back shot? A shot that hit Connally? He always believed he was hit by a different shot than JFK. Simply the analysis of this has been debated in depth for years in many places. The miss that wounded James Tague? The Bam of the Bam, Bam-Bam , many reported?
Bill Newman and several others reacted on film and in photographs to these shots.
The Bam-Bam almost has to be the head shot. And? Connally? The miss/Tague? Or, as some have suggested, a (almost) simultaneous second head shot?
My initial reaction to the last was BS.
Unfortunately I have become a bit conflicted on the possibility.
For Mary Ann Moorman (Kramer) to have experienced the ambush of JFK as she describes in this webcast strongly suggests to me that the ambush was conducted in two parts: the 1st part with silenced weapons & the 2nd part with audible weapons. Mary saw & heard the 2nd part of the ambush. She seems to have been oblivious to part 1.
Mary Ann is not alone here; the SS agents stationed a few feet behind JFK either were also oblivious to part 1 (silenced weapons) are were participants in it.
I prefer to think that during the first phase of the assassination the shots came from weapons that were inside of the buildings and thus gave the impression they came from silenced weapons or “firecrackers”.
But I think you are right, the assassination had two phases. Which fits in very well with the Oswald scenario.
If JFK was verifiably dead when he got to the knoll there would not have been a need for the second phase, the final 3 shots that occurred at the Knoll.
The two phases are also what fuels the LN and CT groups. Both sides have pieces to the puzzle.
Thanks for mentioning the possibility of silenced weaponry, that point often gets left out.
It’s just strange that almost every witness in Dealey describe the gun shot sequence this way:
Almost everyone said there was a shot, long pause, then the last two shots almost on top of each other.
This sequence doesn’t jibe with the capabilities of the Mannlicher. It doesn’t even look like it jibes with the Z film.
Just more strangeness from the JFK case.
Mary Moorman did not say there was a long pause between the shots she heard. She said the second and third shots followed immediately after the first shot. Scroll to 22 minutes and listen to it again. There where 3 shots when the limo came abreast of the pedestal upon which zapduder and sitzman were standing, not 2. The acoustic evidence backs this up.
Mike. I am trying to wrap my head around your mentioning that there were 3 shots when he limo came ‘abreast’ of the pedestal holding Zapruder and his secretary. Are we saying abreast as in directly across from Zapruder in the conventional sense of that word?
Yes. The first shot that Mary heard was the shot that we see hit the President on Zapruder frame 313. The limo was almost directly in front of Zapruder at this time. Mary (and Lee Bowers) tells us that first shot was followed immediately by two more shots.
The acoustic evidence also shows that there were 3 shots (not 2) in about 1 second.
Mike. You wrote that Mary reported that she felt thar the FIRST shot struck Kennedy in the head. You also mention he was directly across from Zapruder when he was killed.
But Mike, we know that Kennedy was wounded, the Governor as well long before the car got even with Mary let alone traveled down to Zapruders position. So there is a bit of a problem here. How can Mary say that the first shot was the one that hit JFK in the head when we can see him violently reacting to his back wound Long before z 313.
Not only this…but Mary makes a confused eyewitness….now and in 1963 btw because she says that she was looking at the President through her camera. Right? well…given the fact that this is true because she did take her photo after all….HOW CAN SHE STATE THAT NOBODY WAS REACTING?? I mean…she was observing an event through the camera lens.
So what value is there to any of her observations? I mean she
Clearly missed two previous shots. Can’t have possibly witnessed reactions of anyone else reacting. And tells an entirely different account both then and now. Nice lady…no doubt. Honest…yes. But just simply did not see the event clearly due to her focus on getting her photo.
“Almost everyone said there was a shot, long pause, then the last two shots almost on top of each other.”
Many people think that, but that’s not what the record shows.
Josiah Thompson’s book has a list of the 190 witnesses on record, along with cites. Most of these (136) reported hearing three shots but fewer than half of them (65) indicated the spacing. Forty out of the 65 said they thought the second and third shots were closer together than the first and second shots but most weren’t any more specific than that, according to Thompson’s list.
Mary Moorman is hands down one of the best witnesses to the assassination.
She was standing only feet away from the limousine when JFK was shot and maintains he was hit by the first bullet (thus disproving the single bullet theory).
She has not changed her story over the years and has always been crystal clear about the details.
She also took the famous “Mary Moorman photo” which is listed as evidence in the Warren Commission.
For some reason the WC did not see fit to call her as a witness.
I am not totally sure of the value of Mary’s claims to anything in her presentation. She clearly states that she heard 3 shots. Yet, amazingly, she sits in her interview (above) and says that the other two shots she heard were AFTER the shot which she heard and identified as being the shot which struck and killed JFK. She clearly states that, at the moment of the first shot, she was holding the camera and looking through the viewfinder at the President. Then she describes the pop-pow. Now, what ever one may think about the events, she clearly has the gunfire thing incorrect. I mean, JFK was clearly stuck in back and Connally was clearly already hit as well. To hear Mary speak about, much less just adopt her story as true, one would have to forget those facts. Right?
It would leave me wondering about what probative value her memory would serve. She does, however, mention the slowing down of the motorcade to almost a complete stop. This event actually serves to describe the view we see from the the Nix film and the Zapruder Film. You are able to see the beginning of the log-jam in the motorcade. Her memory puts the limo stopping claims to bed.
PS…Jean Hill cleary has other issues with this entire mess. It appears that Mary is quite unhappy with Jean Hill’s testimony on many points.
Mary’s observation (as well as that of Lee Bowers) adds a dimension to the assassination that has been ignored for over 50 years.
Mary and Lee Bowers are telling us that there were 3 shots fired when the limo came abreast of the pedestal upon which Zapruder and Sitzman were standing. Mary is also telling us she did not recognize the first shots, the ones that struck JFK in the back and Connally under his right armpit, as gunshots, but thought they were firecrackers.
What Mary and Lee Bowers testimony brings into focus is that the first shots were not recognized by most of the crowd as shots, but as firecrackers. As Mary told us in her video, no one is/was reacting to those first shots.
All of this evidence supports the theory that the assassination had two phases. In the first phase, at the upper end of Elm Street, the shots came from weapons that were located inside of the buildings or somehow otherwise silenced so that they sounded more like firecrackers than gunshots.
The second phase of the assassination would only be implemented if JFK was not already dead by the time he reached the knoll. In the second phase, 3 shots were fired, nearly simultaneously, from different 3 different locations. The shots were not silenced because the assassins needed these shots to be heard so that they could obscure the location of the closest, and most vulnerable assassin, located on the knoll.
I discuss the earwitnesses/eyewitnesses in far greater detail than one can find elsewhere in chapters 5 through 9 at patspeer.com. It became clear to me when compiling this massive list of witness statements that the assumption the first shot heard by everyone was the first shot fired…is incorrect. Many, including Moorman, thought the head shot was the first shot fired… But, get this, all of these witnesses thought they heard at least one shot after this shot. In fact, virtually all of the closest witnesses (e.g. Moorman, Hill, Brehm, Hudson, Zapruder) thought or suspected at least one shot was fired after the head shot.
Mary stated very clearly in the interview that the limo did come to a stop or near stop – what do you mean by saying “her memory puts the limo stopping claims to bed”?
Jeff – why is my earlier post not moderated after 3 weeks?
Because I don’t have time to get to it. Sorry! Jeff
R. Andrew. Mary does not ‘very clearly’ say that the limo ‘did come to a stop or a near stop’. What she did say was: ‘It slowed down almost.. if not… to a stop’.
She makes this remark at beginning at 25:10 to 25:17.
There isn’t really a very clearly in her remarks. What I take from it is the same thing that is visible both on the Zapruder and the Nix Films. That is the SS follow up vehicle, Clint Hill, the Motorcycle Officers all get to the front of the Limo at the same time. And that ends the debate (by some) that the vehicle stopped.
Just didn’t happen.
Taylor – let’s not quibble – Mary believed that the limo slowed down to a stop or near stop.
Roy Truly – standing on the steps of the Book Depository “I saw the president’s car swerve to the left and stop.”
James Chaney riding his motorcycle beside JFK told Officer Marion Baker – “the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped.”
Chaney also stated that he rode in front of JFK’s limo to tell Chief Curry in the lead car that JFK was hit. How is that possible if the limo didn’t stop or come to a near stop? How could Jackie crawl out the back of a moving limo & not fall off?
Over 40 witness’s stated that the limo came to a complete or near stop – the evidence indicates that it did happen & the Z-film does not show it – why?
This was interesting. The only things I never read or heard anywhere else were that Warren Reynolds knew Gen. Walker, that Reynolds was married to a cousin of Moorman, and that Moorman knew so many police officers. This story just gets weirder and weirder.