44 thoughts on “Stone on Nixon: he ‘never overtly said “LBJ did it” but…’”

  1. Photon writes with respect to 1963:

    “The CIA, JCA, defense contractors,think tanks wanted nothing to do with Vietnam.”

    Photon apparently has not studied the history of the First Air Cavalry Division; the history of the Huey helicopter; the history of U.S. military small arms pre- and post-war; the doctrine of air mobility; or the history of U.S. involvement in South Viet Nam in the 1950s.

    Photon also apparently has not spent time studying the events surrounding NSAM 263 and NSAM 273 (drafted on November 21, 1963 by William Bundy for President Johnson’s signature).

    Photon ridicules and demeans posters here for not knowing history.

    A case of stones and a glass house.

      1. Photon is correct that there was no “President Johnson” on November 21, 1963, but this makes me wonder if McGeorge Bundy(I’m not aware of a William as part of his name), knew there WOULD be a President Johnson a day after.

    1. The Army doctrine of “air mobility” was a attempt to adapt the USMC “vertical envelopment” strategy ” to non-amphibious warfare ( and also an attempt to limit USMC influence on tactics). These helicopter -based tactics were being developed in the 1950s, long before JFK even took office.
      I am still trying to figure out how Bundy was aware that LBJ was going to be President on Nov. 21. Oh, I forgot- Bundy was a conspirator! Yeah, that’s the ticket!

      1. Photon, if your McGeorge Bundy comment is a reply to my post, you’ll recall I said I wondered about it. I didn’t say Mac KNEW LBJ would be POTUS the next day, but it was worth a thought.

  2. Oops…I forgot to mention the Judith Exner, Sam Giancana & JFK triangle…what was THAT all about? What was the money going from JFK to Giancana for? Some say JFK was secretly supporting Operation 40 & ZR/RIFLE with the funds. How can this be if brother

    Bobby is raining heat from Federal Marshals & Hoover’s FBI on the anti-Castro mafia-CIA hit teams?
    most authors & reporters refer to this anti-Castro mafia-CIA hit team as just that & not ZR/RIFLE or Operation 40 operatives. This confuses me. What is the correct way to describe them?

    What was in it for the CIA to kill JFK & put LBJ in the white house? Vietnam.

    Plus LBJ could put together a investigative body that would NOT go after the participants (Warren Commission). Just to insure the CIA was handled with velvet gloves LBJ would put ex-CIA Big Daddy Allen Dulles on the Commission to keep the lid on.

    It’s was said to be a ‘scratch my back & I’ll scratch yours right back” thing between LBJ & Cord Meyer (according to E. Howard Hunt & others).

    As I understand it, both LBJ & Nixon were basically gangsters with nice suits to wear. The difference between the two being Nixon would smile at you while his hit men shot you up. LBJ could kill with that evil stare he had.

    How we all survived those 2 has to be a small miracle….

    1. The CIA, JCA, defense contractors,think tanks wanted nothing to do with Vietnam. The idiocy of this line has never made sense to me.
      At the time of the assassination virtually the entire Defense establishment was focused on one thing- planning for a confrontation with the Soviet Union and the means to successfully deal with said confrontation. Strategic nuclear strike was the doctrine, to the point of not even having modern conventional munitions on aircraft carriers- the bombs dropped on Vietnam initially were made in World War II! Nobody wanted a sideshow of little strategic interest diverting defense resources from the real threat of the Red Army pouring through the Fulda Gap.
      Frankly, few in 1963 ever thought that Vietnam would ever become a huge American war with North Vietnam, which it became.

      1. BULLS*T!

        My father was at the Pentagon during Viet-Nam. It was VERY MUCH supported by the Defense Industry at the time. The CIA maneuvered Kennedy into letting Diem get further isolated with the Buddhist suicides in 1963, and then worked in secret with Kennedy’s appointee, Henry Cabot Lodge, to help with the kidnap and assassination of Diem in November. Many industries in the private sector worked to get contracts and supported the war: Dow Chemical, Bell Helicopter, among others. The only concern that the brass had at that time was that Vietnam not get too hot a war as it could draw the “Red Chinese” into it, memories of Korea still on their minds. They didn’t want that to happen. The Vietnam war was a sideshow in the grand scheme of the entire Cold War, but an expensive one in terms of body counts (some of your peers, sir?) as well as in helping the baby boom generation to give up and become cynical of government, something we still suffer from today, I might add.

        1. So the CIA lit the matches for the monks?
          How could the CIA ” maneuvered Kennedy into letting Diem get further isolated” be even possible? Unless JFK was a CIA puppet- in which case why assassinate him?
          Unless your father was in a planning billet @ the Pentagon in 1963 it really doesn’t matter what he told you. Thousands of people worked at the Pentagon in 1963; the vast majority had no access to Vietnam issues.

          1. The CIA instigated the Buddhist uprisings, helped fan the flames of dissent against Diem. JFK thought he had the final decision on Vietnam, as Commander-in-Chief. He didn’t. He was undermined by his own CIA and by Cabot Lodge, whom he picked to handle the Embassy there. Lodge worked with the military and with CIA (elements of both hated Kennedy) to set up the coup in November, in which Diem was murdered. This left a vacuum of power which played into the hands of the militarists, who wanted to ramp up US involvement in Vietnam, against Kennedy’s wishes. Lodge played dumb during the nasty affair, saying that he had no idea that Diem was about to be murdered.

            The following year, the event in the Gulf of Tonkin happened (Summer, 1964). What could have been handled diplomatically, as was done when North Koreans fired on and captured the USS Pueblo, in 1968, or the Israelis fired on and almost sank the USS LIberty, in 1967, was instead used (Tonkin incident) as an ‘Act of War’. Boots went on the ground (USMC) in DaNang, early the following year, on Lyndon Johnson’s orders, in early 1965 (after the SOB got elected). Vietnam was a civil war that we (the US) should have and could have stayed out of, or at least kept to an advisor level, and not made a combat theatre for ground troops, air and naval forces. I blame Johnson for this, as well as the gung-ho military. Kennedy was in the process of withdrawing troops by late 1963, and told his closest aides that he intended to pull completely out by 1965. As he did in Berlin, Cuba, and elsewhere, Kennedy used our military only very reluctantly, which made him an enemy of his own Joint Chiefs and by CIA.
            They worked with Lyndon Johnson to oust Kennedy from power with the JFK assassination. Cuba did not get invaded because Johnson thought it was too dangerous even for his trigger-happy impulses (Dominican Republic and Vietnam were okay however for him). The main benefit for the military after JFK was gone was that Vietnam became open for business, without any presidential curbs on aggression.

  3. All that old spy vs. spy stuff can be a bit confusing for me at times. As I understand it now (this changes from time to time)the problem is connecting LBJ to shooters connected to Nixon’s closet skeletons (Operation 40, ZR/RIFLE & Mongoose). In the closet with the skeletons is ousted CIA commander Allen Dulles & only God knows what else.
    JFK & RFK shut down Operation 40, ZR/RIFLE & Mongoose after the Cuban missile crisis of October 1962. Some resistance to stand down occurred & JFK & RFK got tough with Federal Marshals & Hoover’s FBI. Lots of unhappy wanna be Castro killers floating around the USA.
    LBJ’s got his own hitman(Mac Wallace). According to E. Howard Hunt, LBJ secretly hooks up with Cord Meyer(CIA)who is doing a slow burn over JFK romping in the sack with Meyer’s ex Mary Pinchot Meyer and the JFK hit is put into motion.
    Where is Oswald in all this? Some say part of Mongoose, some say part of Operation North Woods, some say KGB mole. I’m looking forward to what Jeff Morley can tell me about Oswald & George Joannides.
    In other words, LBJ used his own hitman (Wallace, fingerprint found on box in the sniper’s nest)or CIA killers (ZR/RIFLE) or both.
    Nixon, trying to prevent knowledge of Operation 40, ZR/RIFLE & Mongoose becoming public (risking the public thinking HE had JFK killed) used the CIA to back off the FBI from investigating the bank account in Mexico that was paying ZR/RIFLE, Operation & Mongoose operatives. This created Watergate which destroyed Nixon. The effort to hide Operation 40, ZR/RIFLE & Mongoose failed: the Church Committee spilled the beans shortly after Watergate while Jack Anderson was hinting at it in his exposes with Johnny Roselli.

    Did I get it right? I’m always open to corrections on this confusing shadowy ‘dirty deeps’ thing done a long time ago by folks who are probably not alive any longer.

    PS: Assuming the Soviet government knew about the Eisenhower ‘Furtherance’ plans that called for a nuclear strike against China & the Soviet Union simultaneously should the President be killed or become missing, why would the KGB initiate WWIII by killing JFK?

    1. Your assessment works for me and from a global perspective minus the details of individual characters roles, may explain the US political history embarrassment that still can’t be told today. Why else would records be kept sealed for so long.

  4. Sen. Barry Goldwater (1973) was convinced that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination; Goldwater told Jeffrey Hoff that in October, 1973.

    At the 2012 Dallas JFK Lancer conference I ran into JFK researcher Jeffrey Hoff of Arizona. Jeffrey Hoff was a leadership position in the local Cochise County Democratic Club from 1980-1983. He used to be a member of SDS in the 1960’s. Now he installs “off the grid” solar systems. I briefly interviewed Hoff on Saturday, November 17, 2012 in Dallas, TX, at the JFK Lancer conference.
    Jeffrey Hoff told me that in October, 1973 he met Barry Goldwater at a Republican political picnic in Willcox in Cochise County, AZ. I asked him how he ended up at a Republican picnic and he told me his friend Louise Parker, a friend and “real estate lady” from an Arizona “pioneer” family, had invited him. She said do you want to meet Barry Goldwater? Hoff said yes.
    When Hoff met Sen. Barry Goldwater, Hoff, who had a keen interest in the JFK assassination, brought up that topic. Sen. Barry Goldwater told Hoff in October, 1973, that he (Goldwater) was convinced that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination and that the Warren Commission was a complete cover up. Hoff got the impression that Goldwater had told others privately the same thing. I asked Hoff how confident was Goldwater when he was making these statements. Answer: Goldwater was very confident.
    Jeffrey Hoff currently (2012) lives about 35 miles from Pierce, AZ. Lyndon Johnson died in January, 1973. J. Edgar Hoover had died in May, 1972. Allen Dulles died in January, 1969.

  5. I agree with Roger Stone and others who maintain the Watergate ouster of Richard Nixon was a coup d’etat engineered by the CIA. For the press and public, Nixon was and still is the perfect bad guy.

    Truth is, today Nixon’s policies would make him a moderate progressive. He was a man of his times, without doubt. Far less corrupt than LBJ, IMO. Far less secure personally than JFK. But probably, as I see it, the most perspicacious post-war president. Despite his flaws.

    I doubt Nixon had anything other than an opinion about the JFK assassination. If he had more, in terms of documented facts, he surely would have used it to save his skin in 1974.

    1. Stone does not let every fact out but he’s let out enough for us to know that there are going to be secrets in this book never before revealed. This anniversary is a once in a lifetime event and Stone having been a die-harden Republican turned Libertarian is about to flush out all the facts in the yet to be released book.

    2. According to Stone, Nixon did use his knowledge of what happened at the JFK assassination to save his skin in 1974. According to Stone, he used that knowledge to extort a pardon out of Ford.

  6. It is a testimony to the great strengths of our Republic that we survived the ten straight years of the Johnson-Nixon presidencies, two of the craziest men to ever to govern.

    1. The key to this Republic is the Supreme Court.

      Presidents misbehave. Congress fails. Supreme Court Justices, because of life tenure, serve the country. As the Founders intended.

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