The story of the murder of Dallas police officer J. D. Tippit on November 22, 1963, took an unexpected twist this past year.
A local TV newscast showed footage taken by the local ABC affiliate WFAA on that date more than 50 years ago. In the film Dallas police captain Pinky Westbrook can be seen handling a wallet at the scene of Tippit’s murder. It appears to be the wallet of the accused assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.
What makes the film footage remarkable is that for 50 years, authorities have said that the wallet was not found until about an hour later when Dallas police detective Paul Bentley removed the wallet from Oswald’s back pocket shortly after taking him into custody at the Texas Theatre, several blocks away from where Tippit was gunned down.
FBI agent Bob Barrett, who was at the scene of Tippit’s murder and is still alive, now calls Paul Bentley’s story “hogwash”.
The wallet is important because its contents connected Oswald to the guns used in the murder of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit.
The WFAA story
The WFAA story last fall said that the wallet mystery had been “settled.” Report Jason Whitley interviewed retired FBI analyst Farris Rookstool who conducted an investigation of the two wallet stories. Rookstool concluded that the wallet seen in the 1963 footage is an exact match with the Oswald wallet now at the National Archives in College Park Maryland.
Rookstool shows that the circular snaps, metal strips, and a zipper over the cash compartment are identical in both instances.
Rookstool says the wallet proves that Oswald killed Officer Tippit about 49 minutes after President Kennedy was shot and killed in downtown Dallas a mile and half away.
There’s another possibility: The wallet was planted at the Tippit murder scene.
Who found the wallet? And when did they find it?
Here’s the story insofar as it is known.
The first officer on the Tippit murder scene was Dallas Police Sergeant Kenneth H. Croy, who arrived as the ambulance was picking up Tippit’s body. Croy told an interviewer that an unknown man handed him Oswald’s wallet right after his arrival. The witnesses who preceded Croy at the crime scene were adamant that no one dropped a wallet anywhere in the vicinity.
The wallet wound up in the hands of Captain Pinky Westbrook. FBI agent Bob Barrett recalled that Westbrook turned to him at the scene and asked, ‘You ever heard of a Lee Harvey Oswald?’ I said, ‘No, I never have.’ He said ‘How about an Alek Hidell?’ I said, ‘No. I never have heard of him either,'” Barrett explained.
“Why would they be asking me questions about Oswald and Hidell if it wasn’t in that wallet?”
Why does the wallet matter?
The wallet contained what is the only known instance of Oswald carrying identification under the alias of “Alek Hidell.” The two sets of identification cards found in the wallet are key evidence in the JFK case.
Kennedy was killed on Friday Nov. 22. By the next day, it was worldwide news that the rifle that was used in the shooting of President Kennedy was purchased by mail order with a postal money order made out by “A. Hidell” and listing Oswald’s PO box as the place for pick-up.
Oswald and “Hidell” were now tied by the rifle and the wallet to JFK’s murder, less than two hours after the event.
“Why would they be asking me questions about Oswald and Hidell if it wasn’t in that wallet?”
In custody, Oswald denied that he was the owner of the rifle found at the Texas School Book Depository where he worked and where several people saw one and possibly two gunmen. The gun had been ordered in the name of “Hiddel.”
For the FBI man, Barrett said the wallet made the case against Oswald a “slam dunk.”
Yet the Dallas authorities never wrote a report about any wallet found at the Tippit murder scene. Perhaps that was oversight. Perhaps not.
FBI Man: Dallas cop lied
After 50 years, an FBI agent on the scene believes that the Dallas officer who brought Oswald to the police station is lying about finding the wallet in Oswald’s possession.
Barrett attacked Bentley’s claim that he found Oswald’s wallet for the first time in a WFAA news story last November. “They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That’s so much hogwash. That wallet was in (Captain) Westbrook’s hand.”
Why did Barrett wait 50 years to accuse Bentley of lying and obstruction of justice?
It was not a fight he cared to pick. Bentley had been Dallas’s chief polygraph examiner during 1963. It would have been professionally hazardous for Barrett to challenge Bentley before his death in 2008.
So what does the story of the wallet tell us?
It was not public knowledge that Oswald’s wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene until 1996. FBI agent Jim Hosty, who had responsibility for watching Oswald, wrote that a wallet containing identification for both Oswald and “Alek Hidell” was found near a pool of blood. Again, no witness ever saw the wallet on the ground. A second witness, patrolman Leonard Jez, told a conference in 1999 that the wallet was identified at the murder scene as belonging to Oswald.
Rookstool told WFAA that the testimony of Barrett and Croy, Tippit’s billfold, and the WFAA film prove that Oswald’s wallet was at the scene of the policeman’s murder.
Rookstool’s finding is contested by researcher Dale Myers. On his website, Myers argues that the wallet seen on the videotape is thinner and has a straight flap rather than the rounded flap of the arrest wallet. Whether Myers’s contention is correct or not, Myers has also spent years publicizing Barrett’s story that the wallet at the murder scene contained identification for both Lee Harvey Oswald and Alek Hidell.
The best evidence indicates that an unknown person brought Lee Harvey Oswald’s wallet to the scene of Tippit’s murder.
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MORE: See Joseph McBride’s book Into the Nightmare and my own research in Chapters 6-7 of State Secret.
Clearly Oswald was a man determined to get caught by leaving as much evidence as he could every place he went. Think about it.
There was a giant sporting good store that sold guns not 2 blocks from Oswald’s work. If he really didn’t wanna get caught he could have just went there and purchased a way better rifle for a lot less money that could have never been traced back to him since you didn’t even need to show id or anything else back then. Just pay cash and walk out.
Instead, Oswald decides not only to buy a crappy rifle from a sporting good store in Chicago that he saw in a magazine, but spend more money going all the way across town, spending more money by purchasing a money order in his fake name, with his fake ID, but making sure it could all came back to him by using a PO Box in his real name, thus, defeating the whole purpose of using his fake name, with his fake ID. Brilliant right?
You all are paranoid idiots LOL
Didn’t Oswald leave his wallet and wedding ring at home on 11/22/63? So that makes 3 wallets. The Man Who Led Three Lives should be renamed The Man Who Carried 3 Wallets.
Hi Randy,
I thought that Oswald left cash with his wedding ring on the dresser that morning. I don’t ever recall reading about him leaving his wallet.
I find it odd that two pieces of evidence linking a patsy to a murder is found at a crime scene in which finding this particular evidence is totally critical to the investigation. Imagine if we never found out that Hiddel and Oswald are the same person and the guns were sold to him via mail order? It’s also interesting that James Earl Ray allegedly left fingerprints, the murder weapon, laudry tags with his name on them etc. in a storefront close to the murder scene where they would certainly be found. Like the killer wanted the authorities to catch him or someone else did.
So, I’m a cop that arrives first at the murder scene of another cop. A man hands me a wallet he found (presumably at the scene). I never ask who the man was? How he obtained the wallet? I don’t even keep description of the man (presumably no one has pen handy and I can’t write anything down and so now I can’t recall any details),
I have a suggestion… Run this scenario by any cop, he will tell you it’s total BS. It’s a lie.
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I am wondering, with all of the discussion about Tippit and Oswald (and Ruby) he following: Why is it that, nowhere in the record, is it ever mentioned that JD Tippit was killed only 150 yards from Jack Ruby’s Apartment at 222-225 S. Ewing? Why has it never been discussed or reviewed??
With all of the allegations over the years, from the Spy meets other Spy’s in theaters (Hence the Texas Theater meeting…nonsense), to running from the police (more nonsense). The fact is that Oswald set out from his Rooming House and made a BEELINE to JACK RUBY’s Apartment where he was going to find out what the heck had happened.
There were two BOLO(s) that day. 1. A male fitting the general description of Oswald and 2. A Rambler Wagon seen leaving the area. Isn’t it strange to anyone else that Tippit stopped a Rambler Wagon in the street and searched it before getting back into his cruiser and then confronting Oswald?
Btw…there is a Dallas news feed that does pick up with the story of the Car being found in the Oak Cliff area just a minute or two before the shooting of Tippit. In any case….awfully interesting that 10th and Patton (Tippit Shooting) is only 150 yards from Ruby’s Apartment. Agree?
I agree, Ruby pervades the Tippit case like a fog. So many of the individuals in this case have connections to him (T.J. Bowley, Jack Ray Tatum, Helen Markham, Kenneth Croy, Barbara Davis). Even the location of the killing is confined to his turf. What, or who, could pull all these elements together at that time, in that place, with these people, for Tippit’s untimely death? Oswald?
Here’s another question:
Let’s assume that Tippit had never been killed and Oswald was never taken into custody but had simply disappeared after the assassination. He still would have been implicated by the discovery of the rifle on the sixth floor, which is then traced back to the PO box. So the murder of Tippit is not necessary for framing Oswald at all; I think Tippit’s murder is only necessary as the result of a possible double cross so Oswald would be arrested when events went sideways for the conspirators (money squabble, perhaps?). What’s wrong with my thinking here?
KenS,
If one is convinced that Oswald alone assassinated President Kennedy, then your question is plausible. If one is on the fence, he or she would at least consider that time was of the essence for the success of the conspiracy. Oswald as an effective patsy had to be identified immediately (within the hour), he also needed to be arrested and arraigned quickly, thus the Tippitt murder … the public would not accept the rapid ID of a rifle, the shells, Oswald’s departure from the TSBD, etc. as evidence of his shooting Kennedy without first being primed to recognize him as a crazed murderer – enter Tippitt. The plotters of this deed were experienced, and most likely trained in the art of magic and illusion as ludicrous as that will sound to many who find the theory too complex or uncomfortable to consider.
Accepting that it was a conspiracy and that Oswald was a patsy, it is inconceivable to me that any conspirator would want Oswald taken alive. John Martino, a self-admitted part of the conspiracy, said that Oswald was to meet a contact at the Texas Theater, be taken out of the country (or so he thought), and killed. I suspect that Oswald would have been found, possibly in Mexico, in a situation that would have implicated Fidel Castro. Someone fouled up, Oswald was arrested, and Ruby was a last gasp measure used to silence him. There’s no way that anyone wanted Oswald talking – about anything.
Not a bad argument. I think Oswald was supposed to be killed before being taken into custody, for a tidier post-death guilty charge, with no messy interrogation or possibility of even the remote chance of a trial. But since he wasn’t killed, he had to be killed before there could be that trial, so Ruby was forced to do it. That was Jimmy Hoffa’s assessment, as he related it to Frank Sheeran years later, not long before he disappeared. Oswald’s number was up when he showed up for work that day in November. If he had been smarter, he would have done what Richard Case Nagell did—get himself out by shooting a bank ceiling and getting arrested before the assassination could take place.
I thought the Tippit murder was to create an excuse for the police to possibly kill Oswald (if not to further incriminate Oswald’s character).
Pardon me if this seems a bit off topic, but does anyone else find it odd that 50 years later, a couple of kids in Boston (acting alone of course) commit a “shocker” and later decide to go across town and murder a policeman? No witnesses to the murder, but we ‘know’ it was them…..
Hmmmm…. the more things change….
No, and I don’t find that case to be at all the same. Those kids shot the cop out of desperation, to flee town after realizing that they were being found out from the video surveillance.
What I wish could have happened with the JFK assassination would have been for someone to have filmed or photographed the event and quickly left the scene before any of the authorities could catch them and confiscate their film. Then, following my wish scenario, this film or set of photos would be held in secret for years, until it was safer to release them, maybe after multiple copies had been sent out so tampering would have been more difficult to do to just one copy. People did speak out, but because the authorities confiscated their evidence, it was their word against the officials’. The only lucky break to come out was the police motorcycle tape, which alone proves multiple shooters (at least two). Read Thomas’ “Hear No Evil” to find out more.
Here’s the testimony of Kenneth Croy to the Warren Commission. They never proved his complicity in letting Ruby into the garage to shoot Oswald…https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=7795&relPageId=196
But it’s clear they were suspicious…https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=7795&relPageId=199
Croy was questioned for eight hours during the week after Oswald was killed.
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=7795&relPageId=209
Wow. Thanks one more time, I’ve never read this. If I understand this right we have an off duty reserve officer who happened to be the closest to and first on the scene of Tippit.
He is handed or picked up a wallet that is never mentioned in a report by him or the other officers who arrived including an FBI agent. He then goes to meet his estranged wife for lunch at of all places Austin Barbeque.
Two days later in the jail basement he sees a blur he thinks was Ruby crouched low brush past him and bust through the line like a fullback. He is told by a superior when giving his report – two days later – after discussing the incident for eight hours to leave the Ruby part out of this report!
Wow.
In re Croy, try D.L. Mead’s THE OSWALD PARADIGM, chapter 36, “A Dropped Stitch.” It deals with Sgt. Croy. I don’t agree with all of Mead’s ideas, but the work on Croy is most interesting, as is his dissection of the finding of Oswald’s alleged jacket behind the Texaco station near the Tippit murder.
Ruby brushed past Croy, head down, like a full-back.
One might almost think Croy’s job was to act as a tackle to open a hole in the line for the full-back.
I’d like to point out those were his words to the WO. Not mine.
No block there. He stood back and didn’t see or couldn’t remember much else per his testimony.
Ronnie, I’ve read most of Croy’s W.C. testimony (h/t Bill Simpich).
He’s got a lot of memory failure as you say.
The part that’s hard to believe is that when he first saw Ruby, he thought Ruby was a reporter; it’s only when Ruby brushed past him like a fullback, he forms the thought, “gee, maybe that’s Jack Ruby.”
Croy knew Ruby. Why didn’t he recognize him when he first saw him in the basement? To say he mis-identified Ruby as a reporter is to say he lied to the Warren Commission.
I’d like to see Croy’s total financial records for 1963 and 1964.
If Oswald killed Tippit, the odds that he would have dropped his wallet at the murder scene are small. It smells so much like a plant.
Barret’s dismissal of Bentley’s story about finding a wallet on Oswald is based only on the fact that a wallet was already found at the scene. Of course, Barret ignores the possibility that there were two wallets. So he has no valid reason to debunk Bentley’s report.
Why not?
This may be a good time to mention that if you look at the Warren Commission testimony of Kenneth Croy, the officer who supposedly received the wallet from an unknown citizen, you will see that the Commission called Croy as a witness because he was under suspicion as the culprit who let Ruby inside the garage to kill Oswald.
VERY Interesting and appreciated. I respect your work but will you please post the WO Volume/page(s) for Professor Johnny Mac and his friends (with all due respect).
Plus references on the Croy let Ruby in part. I thought Bachelor or ? did it.
It is not a difficult concept, Mr. McAdams. Social Research in fact includes the study of collective consciousness as defined: The totality of beliefs and sentiments common to the average members of a society (in this instance, ‘society’ being New School) forms a determinate system With A Life of Its Own (emphasis mine). . . —Emile Durkheim
I argue that it is significant to recognize that Ms. Loftus comes out of a collective with a set of shared beliefs, ideas and Moral Attitudes which operate as a unifying force within the collective that was groomed at New School. I further argue that in the 1960′s and ’70′s elements of New School were directly involved in the CIA-controlled MkUltra project at Cornell University which actually manipulated memory as a component of those experiments. I conclude that if Ms. Loftus is being used as an expert on memory in the attempt to discredit eyewitnesses and their long or short term memory of the Kennedy assassination, it is fair game to draw attention to her professional background; her mindset if you will, comes out of what was essentially a hive mentality with a highly sinister history of involvement with elements of the CIA, engaged in illegal mind control experiments on unwitting citizens – including manipulation of memory.
I’m certain Ms. Loftus is invited to respond on this site, and I am open to her assessment of my argument.
And your evidence for that is?
And is it your position that if somebody at the New School was involved in something you consider sinister, then everybody (including Loftus) was?
So every academic who comes up with finding that you conspiracists find inconvenient must be corrupt in some way?
Loftus is mainstream in psychology. If you think she’s some kind of spook, spreading disinformation, you have to condemn essentially every psychologist who studies memory, cognition, and such.
John McAdams, either you did not read my comment carefully, or you are deliberately ignoring the salient point. You of all people must know that institutions develop and promote a hive mentality. Please note that I have not alleged that Ms. Loftus is a spook (your word.) I challenged the fact that her training and associations had not been highlighted.
It’s possible the memory work going on at New School in the early ’70’s coincided with the final years of the MkUltra program at Cornell; we have Mr. Richard Helms to thank for destroying critical records of that operation upon his departure from the CIA in 1973 when it is alleged to have been shut down. There may be some information lying around; I will make an effort to locate it and share it with you.
I’m familiar with the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF) and knew that Elizabeth Loftus was on the advisory board. While this organization was inspired by the rash of child abuse allegations in the 1990’s, it attracted memory experts of many stripes, including Martin Gardner.
Considering that jfkfacts commenter “photon” seemed particularly annoyed with my line of research and my suggestion that MkU programming could wear off, I went digging a bit further.
Another “photon” posts this at global village: :Martin Gardner ran the games, puzzles and diversions section of S.A. for untold eons. He’s a founding member of CSICOP. As well as Randi. Both on the board of FMSF ( CIA ).
http://www.fmsfonline.org/advboard.html#Martin%20Gardner
Elizabeth Loftus is on the board of CSICOP with Gardner as well. Why did “photon No. 2” (for clarity’s sake) add “(CIA)” to his statement. Do you think he means the agency? It is quite possible that this is not “our” photon; it is possible he/she does not know what they’re talking about; it’s possible that “photon” is a collective and merely infiltrating forums. These questions could be resolved if photon would provide his or her bona fides: “sincerely; without intention to deceive.”
I respect the value of skepticism; I do not respect deliberate attempts to discredit citizens’ eyewitness testimonies in the Kennedy assassination through a broad propaganda campaign engineered by elitists with the backing of the CIA, and promoted here, on this site. That would be insidious.
Oxford defines elitist: A person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite.
Sound social science is not elitist. Anybody can learn it, and the people who produce it dearly love it if would.
Few if any of the psychologists who have produced the literature on cognition and memory care much about the JFK assassination. They aren’t trying to support a lone assassin theory. If they care about policy questions, it’s miscarriages of justice due to faulty testimony.
Are you aware of the Innocence Project? They say that faulty witness testimony is the single worst cause of mistaken convictions.
John, if you would, please help me make sense of this sentence:
“Anybody can learn it, and the people who produce it dearly love it if would.”
You argue: “If they care about policy questions, it’s miscarriages of justice due to faulty testimony.”
Oh the irony “miscarriages of justice.” Would that one of their ilk with character and integrity might step forward to challenge the posthumous prosecution and final sentencing of Oswald without trial. I’m reminded of the judge who said to a JFK researcher, in spite of the judge’s personal suspicion that Oswald acted alone, “the investigation isn’t over until it is fully over.” (paraphrasing)
you ask: “Are you aware of the Innocence Project? They say that faulty witness testimony is the single worst cause of mistaken convictions.”
Are you quite serious? Let’s line up the witnesses who helped build the case against Oswald as a lone assassin before we talk about an innocence project.
But of course a posthumous prosecution of Lyndon Johnson, or Richard Helms, or Arlen Specter, or any member of the Warren Commission, or any member of the CIA, or any member of the FBI, or any anti-Castro Cuban, is all fine and good.
Double standard. You think you conspiracists can make all the reckless charges in the world, but don’t anybody say anything unkind about Lee.
“Are you aware of the Innocence Project? They say that faulty witness testimony is the single worst cause of mistaken convictions.”
First of all, can you produce any witness testimony that Helms or any of those you listed were involved in the Kennedy Assassination? If so, then of course the Innocence Project applies to them as well.
I was challenging your introduction of the project as justification for dismissing, across the board, eyewitness testimony that contradicts your theory about Oswald. You pick and choose which witnesses you need, discredit the rest, and also you have yet to address the number of witnesses that were not called by the WC.
“Few if any of the psychologists who have produced the literature on cognition and memory care much about the JFK assassination.”
That is an amazing supposition. Scholars of any discipline, in search of the truth, should recognize the shift in American policy that occurred on 112263. Scholars interested in memory above all should wonder what collective memory does to a nation, and when those memories collide with our government’s official record, the country is divided.
Cognitive dissonance is disconcerting, and “produces a feeling of discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance.” Americans have long sought distraction to reduce the discomfort, and as a nation we have yet to resolve the dissonance and restore balance since Kennedy’s assassination.
Unless of course, for example, you consider US environmental policies to be contributing to balance in our country, let alone on the planet? I propose that Kennedy would not have allowed things to progress in such a destructive way.
They’re not conspiracists, they’re realists. Many people from LBJ on down thought there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, or at the very least there were many unanswered important questions. But with the JFK case, it’s easy to get paranoid and see spies where there are none. But guess what? The CIA and the FBI have a lot of spies.
“her mindset… comes out of what was essentially a hive mentality with a highly sinister history of involvement with elements of the CIA.”
How could you possibly know what her mindset is?
You seem to find conspiracy members behind every rock and corner, plotting to control everybody and everything connected with the assassination. Your continuous efforts to link everybody with even the remotest links to JFK or his assassination with undefined “sinister” elements have one thing in common a complete lack of any real evidence that these “associations” actually exist, let alone that even if one assumes that they DO exist that they have any significance whatsoever. Do you believe in thought control involving millions? That is the only way that your endless connections theories could even be possible.
Photon, have you studied Edward Louis Bernays? for expediency, and to give you a bit of a boost, this from wiki:
Edward Louis Bernays (November 22, 1891 − March 9, 1995) was an Austrian-American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda, referred to in his obituary as “the father of public relations”.[1] He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on CROWD PSYCHOLOGY with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.
In respectful anticipation of your response: no, I do not believe that Bernays was behind the assassination. You are wasting your breathe engaging with me on this topic so perhaps it would be less frustrating for you if you pursued themes of a less challenging nature. Go watch some football. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLgXjplfh4
Then why do you mention him?
Do you think he was involved in a cover-up?
John,
Now you’re being silly.
Bernays saw citizens as potential consumers of product. Adolf Berle and his group saw citizens as research specimens and potential foot soldiers, perhaps murderers.
“It was not long before Adolf Berle agreed to serve on the board of the Society for the investigation of Human Ecology, a foundation the CIA created as a cover for MKUltra. “I’m frightened about this one,” Berle wrote in his diary. “If the scientists do what they have laid out for themselves, men will become manageable ants. But I don’t think that will happen” . . .
. . .There were Eminent Physicians and Scientists (emphasis mine) on the board of the society. But lurking behind the sterile formal reports of the researchers was violence…. The CIA was interested in creating a blank mind that could be programmed.” from “Thy Will Be Done,” Colby & Dennett pg. 265
Leslie,
I subscribe, I believe, to what you describe as hive mentality. There is a well-known psychology experiment that establishes the power a group has on individual thinking.
In the experiment, a group of, say, 10 test subject were asked to view a video recording of an event involving several elements. The subjects were then asked in the presence of one another specific questions about what they saw. Nine of the subjects covertly had been instructed by the experimenter to lie about a certain thing they had seen. The tenth subject, who was “innocent,” was the last to be questioned. She went along with the group, later admitting she gave an answer contrary to her perception, because she did not want to be at odds with the group.
There’s a recent movie based on this theme; I can’t recall it’s title, but it’s an excellent thriller.
IMO the poster boy for MK/ULTRA is Sirhan Sirhan. He’s the Manchurian Candidate come to life. Only he didn’t kill RFK. He couldn’t have according Thomas Noguchi and what’s known about the crime and crime scene. He just set himself up as the patsy. To ensure RFK wouldn’t be elected president, wouldn’t open a controlled investigation into JFK’s death.
Jonathan, as you well know, you are expertly tying together the threads, sorting out the strings of spaghetti, one by one, methodically. This level of concentration will have dividends; I trust you are saving all of your posts. My high regards.
Good God,Rafer Johnson and Rosie Grier had to wrestle down Sirhan while he was still firing his Iver Johnson, another “cheap and unreliable” weapon that could kill.
The guy admitted that he shot him, his diary stated that “Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy must die” and he even outlined his motive about RFK’s position on selling Phantom II jets to Israel.He hit RFK behind the ear in probably the only spot that a .22 Long Rifle round would have delivered a fatal wound, in the midbrain.If he hadn’t been inches away for RFK even that shot probably would not have killed him. Who would have ever set up an attempt like that?
Photon, you recount the official story.
Please take a hike, Photon.
Sirhan was tackled 3-4 feet in front of RFK.
The wound that killed RFK was fired 1-3″ from his right ear. From behind.
If I understand this argument, you are suggesting that because Johnson and Grier wrestled Sirhan to the ground, Sirhan could not have been a subject in a mind control programme prior to the assassination of Robert Kennedy Or because Sirhan had a cheap, unreliable weapon he could not have been under the control of outside forces? The remaining elements of the case that have you cited here have been disputed for decades.
Let’s not forget that the Iver Johnson that Sirhan Sirhan was firing was later identified as a starter’s pistol that only fired blanks and also that Thane Eugene Cesar inaccurately told the authorities that he sold his revolver before the RFK assassination when in actuality he sold it afterwards without it being tested by the LAPD. Not to pile on, but an audio tape has recently been recovered showing more shots were fired than Sirhan’s alleged weapon had the capacity for as well.
I have spoken to Bob Barrett extensively about his movements and actions during and after the assassination. He was very forthright about his conclusions, and I have absolutely no doubt that he is telling the truth. The wallet found at the Tippit murder scene contained ID with the names of Oswald and Hidell in it. It’s interesting that if it had not been for TV footage it would have been possible to deny the very existence of the wallet, but when that became impossible they went with the next best story. It belonged to Tippit.
Bob and I have talked for quite a few hours in several conversations. He spoke about it in the first convo, and I brought it up again in our most recent talk. I’d like to share with you verbatim what was said.
Me- Another question is regarding finding the wallet at the Tippit murder scene. Did you speak about that to your fellow agents or other people in the office?
BB- Well, I talked to Lee (Ivan Lee) about it. He was my partner. I don’t remember talking to anyone else particularly about it because the way it was handled by the police department I just figured they didn’t have any use for it.
Me- Uh huh. You know, that still bothers the hell out of me. I don’t know why, but–
BB- Well, it bothers the hell out of me, too, because the way it was handled by the police department was completely wrong. They lost the entire chain of evidence because that wallet–well, they said later it wasn’t Oswald’s–but it WAS Oswald’s. There’s no doubt in my mind that it was, nor in the mind of (unintelligible).
Me- I’m really glad I spoke to you personally about that because there’s no doubt in my mind, from speaking to you, of what it was either. They were these…well, I consider them smokescreens…or something that, well, it was Tippit’s wallet, you know.
BB- They screwed up the handling of it. It was found by a citizen first, and was given to a police officer, who gave it to another police officer, who gave it to Westbrook. He had it, and then it ends up in Bentley’s hands, and Bentley supposedly takes it out of Oswald’s pocket in the car, but hell, he had it in his hands the whole time. Oswald didn’t have it after he left the Tippit shooting.
Personal note: Bob Barrett is a straight arrow type of man. I honestly got the impression that if anyone ever even suggested to him that he should falsify a report or leave something out intentionally they’d be picking their teeth up off the ground. He does not believe in any conspiracy. LHO killed both Tippit and JFK in his mind, yet he still struggles to this day with what he knows about the wallet. I may ask him about the possibility of it having been placed there to incriminate LHO at a later time, but I have not up to now. I just wanted to make that clear before continuing with our conversation.
Me- OOOOHHHH! I get it! I understand now. I didn’t see that piece of the puzzle until you just said it just then. So you’re saying it went back to Bentley.
BB- Yeah, Bentley somehow got a hold of it…I’m sure Westbrook gave it to Bentley, probably to introduce as evidence, and Bentley had it in the car. He said he reaches in Oswald’s pocket and comes up with a wallet. Well, it’s impossible because the wallet was back at the scene of the crime.
Me- Oh. That’s very enlightening. I really appreciate that.
BB- Westbrook asked me questions, like do you know a guy named Oswald, do you know a guy named Hidell, and I didn’t know either one of them. But he was holding the wallet at the time. Why would he ask me those questions unless he was looking at those names?
Me- Of course. There’s no other explanation for it.
BB- And then the wallet was pictured in the TV pictures.
At this point we went on to other things, but I wanted to share what he said, and his belief that it was the same wallet that was later “found” in LHO’s pocket by Bentley. That’s a whole new light on the subject in my opinion.
bcmarshall,
No one is accusing Barrett of lying. I’m sure he’s telling the truth as he recalls it. I’m arguing that his memory is unreliable. There’s even a possible indication of that in your interview, when he said, “It was found by a citizen first, and was given to a police officer, who gave it to another police officer, who gave it to Westbrook.” According to Hosty’s book, Barrett told Hosty that *Westbrook* found the wallet near the pool of blood where Tippit had fallen.
Hard as it may be to believe, it’s not unusual for memories to change. It’s common and perfectly normal. Studies have shown that once a new version of a memory has formed in our minds, it’s just as real to us as the original one was. That’s a pretty scary thought, I know, but if you Google “memories change over time,” here’s what you get:
https://www.google.com/#q=memories+change+over+time&safe=off
It’s easy to just assume that his memory is unreliable, especially if it doesn’t fit what you want to hear, but I simply don’t believe he’s wrong. He’s been reliving these events for 50 years. This wasn’t just a peripheral event, like asking what he had for breakfast that day. This was critical, something that stood out in his mind like a blinking red light.
I can’t prove his memory is reliable any more than you can prove that it isn’t. I can only tell you that my discussions with him have left no doubt in my mind that this was burned indelibly into his mind.
He has repeated the citizen to officer to officer to Westbrook to me on several occasions. I don’t know what another author might have said about what HE recollected Barrett saying. I have his interviews in which he has clearly repeated the same thing more than once.
You’re not taking into account that Hosty, though a good friend of and carpool companion of Barrett, may be the one misremembering. Hosty did not have the experience, and to him it’s repeating words. To Barrett it’s an unforgettable event.
For what it’s worth there’s no way I believe he’s wrong based on many hours of conversation. I have no proof, but it’s a very strong conviction I have.
According to Michael T. Griffith’s article, Barrett insisted that he was told it was Oswald’s wallet as he was asked by a police officer at the scene if he knew Oswald or Hiddel.
Barrett’s memory doesn’t seem to budge on this specific detail.
Jean:
The anti-conspiracy crowd say the same thing for every witness who says things that refute the lone gunman theory.
Witnesses can be unreliable. Recollections can change.
But the argument you and photon and McAdams keep making is generic. If you were consistent with this theory, you would have to discount every witness making a personal recollection, including ones who say things you agree with. But of course you don’t treat this principle with any consistency.
Put another way, the fact that witnesses in general often make mistakes is not a legitimate argument against any witness in particular, as your “team” seems to think. If it were, testimony would be limited to recording devices.
If you have reason that this particular man has remembered wrong, then by all means say it. But it is tiring to hear the same meaningless and inconsistent arguments being made over and over again by people who have no real facts on their side.
That’s what Jean has been doing on this thread, and what I do all the time.
Paulf and others,
It doesn’t matter how certain Barrett is or how honest he is. Please read some of the research at the Google link I posted and elsewhere online.
The idea that important or shocking events are forever etched in our memory is an illusion, and being certain of a memory doesn’t at all guarantee its accuracy. I can’t stress enough that this is not my OPINION, it’s what memory research has shown, over and over again.
The test of ANY witness’s memory is how well it fits with the other evidence and whether or not it makes sense. So far, no one here has explained how Barrett’s 30-year-old recollection could possibly make sense.
Finding a suspect’s ID at a murder scene is a big deal. It would have tied Oswald and his alias to the scene conclusively. Why didn’t the police immediately call the dispatcher with this important information? They examined the wallet closely … and did nothing. Why?
The excuse given 30 years later by Barrett smacks of rationalization. “Because too many cops had handled it”? Really? The cops on the scene immediately worried about chain of custody?
Instead of reporting it, someone handed the wallet to Bentley at the theater saying, I suppose, “Here, claim you got this out of his back pocket.” And Bentley apparently says, in effect, “Sure, no problem”?? Everybody falls in line in this wacky scheme and nobody mentions it for three decades — that’s what I’m supposed to believe?
I’m sorry, but I prefer to believe that after so many years Barrett simply misremembered when and where Westbrook asked him about the names in Oswald’s wallet — not at the Tippit scene, but later, probably at the police station after they’d looked at the contents of his wallet.
Now I ask you, folks, which version makes more sense?
Jean,
Firstly, at the time of Oswald’s arrest, Barrett may not have mentioned hearing about Oswald/Hiddell at the Tippit murder scene because he didn’t think it was significant. And he likely wasn’t aware of any discrepancy until the Warren Report was published.
Secondly, it’s not as if Barrett is the only source for the claim that Oswald’s wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene. If all we had was Barrett’s recollection, then yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, there’s the TV footage(showing policemen inspecting an unidentified wallet), and officer’s Croy and Jez corroborating parts of Barrett’s story.
Even then, I’m not totally convinced that an Oswald wallet found by Tippit’s body but at this point, it doesn’t seem too far fetched that this could’ve happened and not been documented.
There are dozens of examples of the Dallas PD not operating by the book on 11/22/63 in terms of documenting evidence or documenting the names of persons of interest so it’s not implausible that due to police negligence there was a break in the evidence chain for Oswald’s wallet. These weren’t petty crimes they were dealing with and Oswald wasn’t a typical murder suspect. The events of that day were very fluid and the DPD was likely unprepared for what transpired that day.
On the otherhand, the contemporary documentation and testimony relating to Oswald’s wallets and IDs is suspicious and lacking consistency. Therefore it can’t be ruled out(yet) that the DPD and the FBI knew about these discrepancies at the time and covered them up.
Jean:
Your explanation basically is that the story as recounted doesn’t fit your preferred narrative,so it can’t be true.
Yes, the story is puzzling, but there are a lot of explanations, such as the one you don’t want to consider: that the wallet was somehow planted to frame Oswald. There are all kinds of inconsistencies surrounding his arrest and the evidence against him, including the multiple wallets, the inconsistencies in connecting him with the weapons involved or the Tippet murder, etc.
The fact is that he said he was a patsy and was killed in police custody before he could say more lends some credence to the theory that he was framed.
Paulf, That needed to be said, Finally.
Thank You.
This is a fascinating post. Barrett is claiming that the seasoned veteran Bentley kept Oswald’s wallet “in his hand” for a full 20 minutes, while the officers went from the scene of the Tippit shooting to the theater? Somehow that doesn’t ring true, Bentley would have needed his hands in the meantime. And had he kept he wallet in his own pocket (or in his jacket or some other place on him), someone would have seen him extract it. What kills this theory, is the wallets are not the same. IF the wallets were the same, Barrett’s theory would make sense. But since they’re not, it seems like the weakest grasp at a straw to try to explain the unexplainable. As far as “memories changing”, I’m sure it’s possible to convince oneself of just about anything (we have a somewhat less palatable expression for it out here on the left coast). I continue to find the hoops noteworthy, that people have to jump through when they’re trying to explain this stuff. The wallets were different. Ergo, there was likely no tranport of the Tippit wallet to the Texas Theater – there were actually TWO wallets. If there was any overlap in the contents of those two wallets it would very much point to a conspiracy before the fact.
Note to moderator: The previous comment was posted a little prematurely. The comment below encompasses my entire statement.
A related issue to the wallet is how all of the contemporaneous reports on 11/22/63 are silent on the name of “Hidell”.
Only on the 23rd did the “Hidell” name emerge in public, and it was only after the FBI allegedly discovered in the early morning hours of the 23rd that Hidell had mail-ordered the Mannlicher-Carcano and had the rifle delivered to Oswald’s post office box address.
From the 23rd on, most of the witnesses who wrote reports on the 22nd gradually remembered that Hidell’s ID was in Oswald’s wallet.
Cops are trained to include all relevant data in their reports. It’s hard to think of anything more relevant than the Hidell ID.
To my mind, either all these witnesses were given a secret order to not mention the Hidell name (unlikely) or the Hidell ID was only mentioned by Westbrook at the Tippit murder scene and then covered up until the right moment (more likely).
The Hidell story should be a follow-up article to the wallet story. Robert Charles-Dunne did a good round-up on this years ago at the Education Forum. Here it is:
So what did Bentley’s report of the arrest say about the suspect’s ID? “On the way to the city hall I removed the suspect’s wallet and obtained the name…. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook’s office to make a report of the arrest.” The date of the report was December 3, or two weeks after the event, itself a rather disquieting delay in filing a report that itself stipulates he went to Westbrook’s office to file a report immediately after the arrest. Perhaps he did write another report on 11/22/63 and nobody has been able to locate it in the past 42 years. Perhaps you will suggest that his memory was far sharper after 35 years than it was after 14 days? [I will attempt to upload the 2nd page of this report, which deals with the post-arrest trip downtown, so you can comb it for any mention of “Hidell” ID and let me know what you find.]
So, OK: Bentley failed to mention finding ID in Oswald’s alias. But other officers did. Gerald Hill told the WC that Bentley had found the ID while en route to DPD HQ, but was uncertain about the name, recalling only that it was the same name that had been used to order the rifle. However, on the very day of the “Hidell” ID’s discovery upon the suspect, mere hours after it occurred, here’s what Gerry Hill told NBC TV:
HILL: The only way we found out what his name was was to remove his billforld and check it ourself; he wouldn’t even tell us what his name was….
Q: What was the name on the billfold?
HILL: Lee H. Oswald. O-S-W-A-L-D.
Bentley’s failure to remember the “Hidell” incident must have been contagious. Hill caught it fast, though he recovered in time for his testimony. CT Walker, as noted earlier, failed to hear anything about Hidell while sitting right beside Oswald when the ID was allegedly found in Oswald’s wallet. Nevertheless, he told the WC that when they got to the DPD HQ, Oswald “was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A.J. Hidell on it.”
Please avail yourself of the reports filed by Walker, and K.E. Lyons, and Bob Carroll and let me know if any of the five arresting officers mention anything about finding “Hidell” ID on the day of the event. Perhaps you can also suggest why all five had instant amnesia. You might also explain how it came to be that having had his wallet removed by Bentley, who reported that he gave it to Lt. Baker, Oswald seems to have had his wallet returned to him, even though he was still hand-cuffed with his hands behind his back.
Richard Stovall testified that he and Gus Rose were talking with Oswald prior to Captain Fritz commencing the interrogation. Stovall said that he asked Oswald his name, and Oswald told him “Oswald.” Stovall noted that the suspect had his billfold and it included “Hidell” ID. At that point, Fritz entered and sent Stovall and Rose out to Irving to check the Paine home.
Five days after Stovall testified to these facts, Rose was called and asked about this series of events. Rose said that when he and Stovall asked the suspect his name, he replied “Hidell.” Rose claimed that he found ID in the billfold in both names. Needless to say, the WC didn’t trouble itself to reconcile the diametrically opposed testimonies of Stovall and Rose regarding what the suspect told them. But then, the same WC staff didn’t seem to question the absolute absence in the DPD reports of any indication that the word “Hidell” was ever uttered on that day.
Helpful, but problematic corroboration came from another detective, Walter Potts, who told the Commission that soon after 2 pm he was dispatched to “go out to Oswald’s or Hidell’s or Oswald’s room…. On his person – he must have had – he did have identification with the name Alex Hidell and Oswald.” Potts claimed that when he got to the Beckley boarding house, he and and his fellow officers – which included Justice of the Peace David Johnston , who would preside over LHO’s arraingments – were told by housekeeper Earlene Roberts and the Johnsons, who owned the house, that none of them knew “a Lee Harvey Oswald or an Alex Hidell either one.” When questioned, Roberts and the Johnsons admitted having been asked about an “Oswald” but made no mention of “Hidell.”
Interestingly, JP David Johnston was involved with police all day long, and in his own report referred to an Oswald alias – O.H. Lee – under which he’d rented his boarding house room. Despite having been present when Potts, et al, asked after Oswald or Hidell, Johnston too suffered from the contagious amnesia regarding that name.
Thanks again for posting this. The link I posted above is the one you mention Mr. Dunes comments come from. Probably the best analysis of this subject I’ve read to date. Ron Ecker’s comments were relevant and interesting along with Jack White. I never knew Jack consulted on Harvey and Lee, bless his memory.
Thanks, Ronnie, for posting the link that included Mr. Dunne’s comment. It’s relatively short, and hits many of the key points.
Bill Simpich: I don’t want to detract from the primary significance of your post, but it’s an opportunity to pursue this:
“Interestingly, JP David Johnston was involved with police all day long, and in his own report referred to an Oswald alias – O.H. Lee – under which he’d rented his boarding house room. Despite having been present when Potts, et al, asked after Oswald or Hidell, Johnston too suffered from the contagious amnesia regarding that name.”
Johnston presents an interesting line of inquiry. As you point out, ‘he was involved all day long,’ all the more interesting because he was from Precinct 2 in what was at the time Far North Dallas, in the northern most quadrant of the county. His presence at the Dallas Trade Mart in anticipation of the luncheon and Kennedy’s speech made him easily accessible; he was readily identified by a police officer and rushed to Parkland.
When he arrived, JP Theron Ward was already there, evidently having had his radio open when a call came out; he must have been in the vicinity as well because his Precinct 3, Garland, which bordered JP David Johnston’s Richardson was at minimum a 30 minute drive from Parkland, perhaps even longer in 1963 because Central Expressway had not yet been widened (and Ward would have had to cross through downtown adding another 15 minutes), LBJ Freeway was under construction, so Northwest Highway would have been the alternative loop around to connect with Harry Hines Blvd, the most direct route South to Parkland (the toll road had not yet opened). It would have been impossible for Ward to reach Parkland before Johnston who came from the Trade Mart, only minutes away. Ergo, Ward was conveniently “in the vicinity,” but not at the Trade Mart that I can find.
There were ten precincts in Dallas County in 1963. Why were other justices of the peace not called? Perhaps they were out of pocket, but it would have made far more legal sense for the JP representing downtown or Oak Cliff to have been immediately involved. Several sources suggest that the officer happened to recognize Johnston at the mart, and others say that Ward was ‘nearby.’ But where were the other eight, particularly in light of the fact that the Mart and Parkland were far closer to downtown in precincts presided over by residents much closer into town than either Garland or Richardson.
What I believe may well be significant is that Precincts 2 and 3 were home of two large military contractors, Texas Instruments and Collins Radio. Executives and employees would have resided primarily in those voting precincts, all of whom had already begun to benefit from the contracts in anticipation of the escalation of military activity in Vietnam. I posit that if any Justice of the Peace could have been pressured in the slightest fashion, it would have been both Johnston and Ward.
Note that even Bugliosi opines that Ward was a “young justice of the peace . . .. Too timid to buck the medical examiner . . .” And Dr. Charles Crenshaw notes that in spite of Henry Wade’s opinion that a “missile” must be taken into evidence, “the judge [Theron Ward] mysteriously ignores the advice of the two Texas officials … and releases the body to Kellerman.” Crenshaw continues: “Without saying a word, Ward simply points to the exit, allowing Kellerman to begin removal of the body and all evidence associated therewith. Texas law was breached and a critical link in the investigative process violated.”
Bottom line gang you can all continue to insult each other however if you calm down and look at the Facts 1. No struggle 2. Gun hidden in back and in the belt 3. Firing a weapon does not create enough movement to dislodge a wallet from one pocket and 4. Don’t automatically assume any one was telling the truth about who’s wallet it actually was seriously we all know the amount of lies told by now!
For we know it could have been Billy the thirteen year old neighbor six houses down unless that wallet was photo’d with Oswalds pic in it then the whole thing is sketchy at BEST!!!!!
I’ve not read all of it yet but this discussion of the wallet(s) from a few years ago is quite interesting in the first few pages.
Note there are 12 pages with some long posts in them.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4572&page=1
But its not just Barrett who says it was Oswald’s wallet.
That is a ploy used by Myers.
Its also Jez and Westbrook.
And Rookstool’s analysis seems pretty good to me.
Oswald killed a police officer and then left his ID there at the scene near the pool of blood?
Nope.
Oswald carried around three wallets with him?
Why?
Third option: someone dropped the wallet at the scene to incriminate Oswald. Purpose: to inflame the DPD, since the plotters knew the murder of JFK would mean little to them. But killing a cop would drive them batty. This is McBride’s thesis and he backs it up with evidence through interviews.
Dale Myers can try and wish this one away all day. Just like he never explains how Oswald picked up the revolver at REA when there is no evidence he was alerted to it being there.
Its not going away Dale.
No one in the DPD tried to kill Oswald as retaliation for the Tippit killing. Suggests strongly to me the DPD had no reason to believe Oswald killed Tippet.
It’s been postulated that THAT was Tippit’s job but he didn’t or couldn’t follow through on the deed (I myself don’t mean to incriminate him but there’s a story about Tippit being seen before his demise at a coffee shop making a last minute phone call, etc.).
Folks, there’s a chain here… and it’s the Hidell ID. That ID tied Oswald to the supposed assassination weapon found in the TSBD. Why would he carry that? Why would he drop that? And why wasn’t that wallet found at the Tippit shooting, shown in detail in the WPAA tv clip and later convincingly IDed as the wallet found in the archives, reported? We KNOW the FBI has a solid history of rewriting reports from witnesses in this case, so it appears obvious to me that the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene was “erased” by the FBI. By the way, there is also a lot of questions regarding Westbrook, who is a strong candidate for bringing the wallet to the Tippit scene. Why wasn’t it found before he arrived? A cop is shot and his wallet is lying there and Westbrook ends up with it?
So who is Westbrook? According to the Armstrong Harvey/Lee cite there is a
strong indication he may have been CIA.
According to Armstrong…
QUOTE ON:
While (LEE) Oswald was hiding in the balcony, and (HARVEY) Oswald was
sitting in the 4th row in the lower level, Captain Westbrook allegedly
found a wallet at the scene of Tippit’s murder. There was a wallet and it
contained identification for Lee Harvey Oswald and Alek Hidell, including
a Texas drivers license for Lee Harvey Oswald. FBI agent Bob Barrett saw
the wallet and WFAA-TV took newsreel film of the wallet. Who found the
wallet?
(On the website, a frame from WFAA newsreel footage is shown).
Eight or nine people walked to Tippit’s patrol car and saw him lying on
the street. Two ambulance attendants removed Tippit’s body. Numerous DPD
officers arrived at the scene before Westbrook arrived. But none of these
people, not one civilian witness, not the ambulance attendants, not any of
the trained police officers, reported seeing a wallet laying on an
otherwise empty street. Without proof that someone, anyone, found the
wallet and handed it to Capt. Westbrook there is a distinct possibility
that Westbrook brought the wallet to the scene of Tippit’s murder. After
the assassination, Capt. Westbrook retired from the Dallas Police and
served as a special advisor to the police in South Vietnam (nearly all
“special advisors” to the police in Vietnam were CIA connected).
A DPD dispatch at 1:33 PM: “w/m/30 5’8″, very slender build, black hair, a
white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks.” A DPD dispatch at 1:45 PM:
“Have information a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West
Jefferson … supposed to be hiding in balcony.” As police began to
descend on the Texas Theater they were told by a “young female” (probably
Julia Postal) that the man was in the balcony. As several DPD officers
began searching the balcony Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson came face to face
with a young man who was walking down the stairs to the lobby. Courson
said, “that he was reasonably satisfied in his own mind” that this man was
(LEE) Oswald. While Courson was walking up the front stairs to the
balcony, the police, and Captain Westbrook, were entering the main floor
from the rear entrance. The last DPD dispatch reported the suspect was
wearing a white shirt, white jacket, and was in the balcony. The suspect
(LEE Oswald) in the balcony was wearing a white t-shirt, but had left his
light colored jacket under a car at Ballew’s T exaco Station.
HARVEY Oswald, wearing a long-sleeved brown shirt, is arrested
Captain Westbrook apparently told DPD officers at 10th & Patton that Lee
Harvey Oswald was a suspect. Inside the darkened theater Tommy Rowe (not
Johnny Brewer), directed the police to the man wearing the long sleeved
dark shirt–HARVEY Oswald. Rowe was a close friend of Jack Ruby and worked
at the shoe store with Brewer. The police soon arrested and handcuffed
(HARVEY) Oswald. Capt. Westbrook told the officers “get him out of here as
fast as you can and don’t let anybody see him.” DON’T LET ANYBODY SEE
HIM!! Why?
As HARVEY Oswald was taken out the front of the theater a DPD officer told
Julia Postal, “we have our man on both counts.” Julia said this was the
first time she heard of Tippit’s death and the officers arresting Oswald
had identified him by calling his name — “Oswald” (interview with Julia
Postal by SA Carter 2/28/64). Several police officers knew the name of
their suspect before leaving 10th & Patton, thanks to Captain Westbrook.
Three police officers were ordered to obtain the names and addresses of
all theater patrons. This list soon disappeared, and the possibility of
learning the identity of Oswald’s contact at the theater, and the identity
of the man confronted by Deputy Sheriff Courson, disappeared with it.
(HARVEY) Oswald, wearing a brown shirt, was brought out the front entrance
of the Texas Theater, placed in a police car and driven to jail. Paul
Bentley removed (HARVEY) Oswald’s wallet from his left rear pocket en
route to the DPD headquarters (along with Officers Carrol, Hill, Walker
and Lyons) and found identification for “Lee Harvey Oswald” and “A. J.
Hidell”–similar to the identification found in the wallet that was left
at the Tippit murder scene. The Dallas Police were now in possession of
two wallets, both containing ID for Lee Harvey Oswald. These two wallets
could have created serious problems if properly identified as evidence and
reported. It should come as no surprise that Capt. Westbrook’s wallet
disappeared, after DPD Capt. Fritz gave it to FBI agent Hosty on 11/27/63,
and one of the Oswalds (LEE) disappeared as well. For a thorough
discussion of how the FBI and the Dallas Police deliberately mishandled
this evidence, read John Armstrong’s 1997 Dallas Conference speech (linked
on the home page).
NOTE: There were a total of five Oswald wallets: a black plastic wallet
(CE 1798); a red billfold found at Ruth Paine’s (CE 2003 #382); a brown
billfold found at Ruth Paine’s (CE 2003 #114); a billfold taken from LHO
upon arrest–initialed by HMM (Henry Moore), wallet and contents
inventoried and photographed; and the Westbrook wallet, which was not
initialed by police, not listed in inventory, not photographed, not
mentioned by a single witness to the WC, HSCA, ARRB, etc. and disappeared,
but not before is was filmed by WFAA TV and seen by FBI agent Barrett.
As (HARVEY) Oswald was en route to the police station, Bernard Haire,
owner of a hobby shop two doors from the theater, saw the police escort a
man out the rear of the theater. For the next 25 years Mr. Haire and other
witnesses thought they had seen the arrest of Oswald. But there is no
police report, no record of arrest, nor any mention of a person taken out
the rear of the theater. There are, however, many police reports that
state Oswald was arrested in the balcony. The police homicide report of
Tippit’s murder read, “suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the
Texas neater at 231 W. Jefferson.”
See the Dallas Police Homicide Report for “Tippitt, JD”
At least two other DPD documents make the same “error.” In his report to
Captain Gannaway, Dallas Police Detective L.D. Stringfellow wrote: “On
November 22, 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the balcony of the
Texas Theater, 231 West Jefferson Blvd and was charged with the murder of
President John F. Kennedy and the murder of Officer JD Tippit.” How could
several experienced, career police officers make such a mistake?
QUOTE OFF
Armstrong’s site is at:
http://harveyandlee….November_22.htm
modify_inline.gif
Good post Burgandy, just one thing.
According to the Usher, it was Lee who was taken out the front and found on the main floor while the lookalike in the Balcony was taken out the back door. If you look at it the way the usher, Butch Burrows, reported it all makes sense to me. Lee Oswald was killed by Ruby who knew Lee unless someone can prove me wrong. I think Marina and Oswald’s mom knew who the real Lee was. Yet there were several look-alikes and other impostors in Mexico for confusion even if Oswald was there in Mexico City, including all the reports of other Lee Oswald impostors even in Alice Texas. Counter intel’s “blame everything on Russia” wanted Oswald in Mexico as the excuse to cover-up everything for the ploy to prevent world war 3. Which got LBJ and Hoover and CIA counter intel off the hook to hide their knowledge behind “saving the world” and “National Security”.
So the confusion of the cover-up needed Oswald in Mexico and at the same time also Oswald impostors to claim he was not in Mexico in order for the National Security excuse for the coup’s coverup.
As far as LBJ pretended to be worried about, Oswald in the Russian embassy meant Russia ordered Oswald to kill JFK… but LBJ did not want a War with Russia or even questions about it that would blow the cover-up… so we get CIA and FBI counter intel saying he was there and no he wasn’t. Confusion and doubles with stolen ID’s is another aspect of Allen Dulles’s famous “Hiding in Plain Site” spy method and our best researchers get caught up fighting each other over one version or the other without realizing the confusion was necessary to get away with murder and the cover-up was the coup, while the shooters were just hired guns.
Getting back to the basic’s of Mr. Simpich’s article. I guess some would conclude the Tippit Murder scene wins 3-1. DPD Sgt. Croy tells interviewer he was handed wallet by unknown man. DPD Cpt. Westbrook on camera with wallet. FBI Barrett, “know Oswald, Hidell?, Bentley finding wallet hogwash. Only Bentley regarding finding “it” at the Texas Theater?
In the MFF link to his WC testimony Bentley says he removed the wallet on the way to HQ, obtained identification, later turned over to Lt. Baker (was Marion Baker a Lt.?).
Somewhere back down the years I thought I read they questioned him in the car on the way back to HQ if he was Oswald or Hidell and that he refused to answer. Also that later early in interrogation he responded to the same question, “you figure it out”. I don’t think I’m dreaming. Can anybody help out here?
If the DPD Capt. and Sgt. and the FBI officer were handling/talking about a Oswald and Hidell wallet, why o why was no report of such filed?
If All these Peace Officers are being truthful, there were at least two wallets.
Jonathan, what is your real name?
What state do you reside in?
Are you a trial lawyer?
Do you know who my classmate Steven Harper is and his views on law schools?
Jonathan G. Tidd
Attorney
admitted via bar exam in Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, New York
widely published tax lawyer
member TRUSTS & ESTATES Editorial Advisory Board
nationally recognized tax lawyer
practiced general law 1973-76
many CLE presentations
B.S.E.E. UIUC (1967)
J.D. UIUC (1973)
CLU and ChFC designations
DLIEC (1970-71)
USAIC, Fort Huachuca (MOS 8966, 1971)
Viet Nam (15 Sep 1971 – 14 Sep 1972)
Now, how about you, Photon.
Yes Photon, time to come clean
Correction: USAICS, Fort Huachuca, AZ (MOS 8666, 1971)
Domicile: Connecticut
Trial experience: 1973-76 represented individuals in civil and criminal trials in Illinois.
Once again, how about you, Photon?
Very impressive record Jonathan! I salute you.
(My cousin is a CLU, ChFC and T.E.P. among other credentials, but not an attorney).
Well done Jonathan! Let’s see if the Brave Mr Photon reveals himself lol. One quick nugget Gerald Hemming and his wife in an interview with Noel Twyman revealed that he worked for Kleins sports in Chicago for a while What a Coincidence huh?
I am an Officer in a professional corporation in Northern Virginia that contracts for services with the Federal government. By law the nature of those services must remain confidential.
Due to the nature of prior Federal service I have professional contacts with members of several Federal agencies and give expert consultation in several fields , including national security.
As you are aware I was an Officer in the Armed Forces; I come from a long line of Officers who have served this country.
Photon, with what is clearly a high level security clearance, do you have access to data mining done by the NSA? In which case, might you have access to information on commenters participating on this site? Or would you argue that no one should be concerned if they have “nothing to hide?” Can you access private emails? Listen in on phone calls? Track citizens by satellite? Does your reach extend across the pond?
So, Photon, your paycheck comes directly or indirectly from the federal government. Welcome to the club.
Except I’m independent of the U.S. Government. I’m just a tax adviser to a U.S. entity.
You on the other hand get your paycheck directly or indirectly from the U.S. Government.
Give it up, Photon. You have revealed your bias. Your loyalty is to the U.S. Government. Not to the facts.
Loyalty to the government is loyalty to the facts.After all, the government is of the people,by the people, for the people.If it wasn’t for the government you would not have clean water, safe meat to eat, sanitation and safe medical care.You would not have modern roads or reliable air transportation.
Is there anything wrong with trying to set the record straight and educating the public with the facts as they were elucidated by professional Federal agencies that actually know what they are doing?
So Photon is a Keynesian after all! Congratulations. I agree that without government, you couldn’t have a functioning society. Where we disagree I think is that I believe that government is susceptible to corruption, by the corporations and for the corporations. It has to have checks and balances, and remain open to the public, especially as this pertains to fifty year old CIA files. Because as Photon reminds us, our government is owned by “We the People”. Not “wee sheeple” powerless to ask fundamental questions and expect honest answers from those who serve us, right?
Photon, you remark …. “Loyalty to the government is loyalty to the facts….”
Are you referring to facts produced by the government sanctioned Warren Commission Report, the HSCA Report as evidence that Federal agencies knew what they were doing? If so, I believe that you suffer from a condition known as “blind loyalty.” Programming and or propaganda can instill blind loyalty; in a democracy, critical thinking is the act of a loyal citizen.
You further ask: is there anything wrong with trying to set the record straight and educating the public with the facts as they were elucidated by professional Federal agencies that actually know what they are doing?
We The People, which includes you photon, do not “benefit” from government; we have devised our government to serve the needs of everyone, rich poor, educated and non, privileged and struggling .. not the reverse. If you do not understand that concept, we are not living in the same democracy.
Photon, to put things another way, you’ve reveled the hand that feeds you. Everyone here knows you’re not going to bite it.
Why should anyone here give credence to what you say on the matter of whether the U.S. Government covered up the JFK assassination?
For all anyone here knows based on what you’ve written here about yourself, you come here with inside knowledge to mislead and deceive. That’s a distinct possibility from where I sit.
Photon,
You aver:
“As you are aware I was an Officer in the Armed Forces; I come from a long line of Officers who have served this country.”
I was unaware of your military service. You’ve never revealed your military service.
How did you obtain your officer commission: ROTC, OCS, West Point or other service academy?
If you were an army officer, what was your MOS?
C’mon Photon. You’ve played everyone here. Let’s see your hand.
Jonathan, before I forget and before this exchange is lost in the mists of time, you most probably have encountered Harvey Dale or Chuck Feeney?
Never heard of them. But I have shopped at Southdale and met Chuck (Charlie) Finley, the greatest showman since Bill Veeck.
The wallet was the key evidence to identify Oswald as Hidell, who was the alias used for purchasing both a rifle from Klein’s Sporting Goods (Chicago,IL) and a handgun from Seaport Traders (L.A., CA). It’s surprising Oswald ordered them by mail months apart, but they were shipped on the same date (WC Report, pp. 121 and 174). More surprising, as Jim DiEugenio has noted, the paperwork is missing! Since the weapons were ordered in Hidell’s name, but the box office was rented by Oswald in his own, how could he get the packages? It was mandatory to show an ID for such out of the State transactions, and if Oswald identified himself as Hidell, why there isn’t any testimony by the post office’s employees on such an easy-to-recall fact?
Furthermore, the only record of “Oswald’s” purchase transaction from Klein’s was on Klein’s microfilm. The FBI lost, we’re told, the microfilm; it never was returned to Klein’s.
All that exists is a photograph of no provenance of an order form from Oswald to Klein’s. That order form does not exist. Nor does the microfilm from which it was allegedly photographed.
That’s called no chain of custody.
There’s NO WAY the rifle at the national archives gets admitted against Oswald in a trial
I’m going to check out Jean Davison’s links above and Krusch’s books.
(Some of the above responses are real good too).
You´re right, Jonathan, moreover if he rifle attributed to LHO is not the one ordered by him according to the FBI. The latter was a 36″ Mannlicher-Carcano carbine, but DPD “found” a 40″ short rifle. To cap it all, Klein’s did not put scopes on this rifle and we all know DPD found it with a scope.
Sorry, but that’s not the way it works. If you say it proves something sinister, you have to prove that no prosaic explanation is adequate. Otherwise, you have proven nothing.
You are not allowed to just posit some conspiratorial explanation, and then it’s assumed to be true until proven false.
“You are not allowed to just posit some conspiratorial explanation, and then it’s assumed to be true until proven false”
Absolutely right, but this goes both ways. The shoddy official version should not be assumed to be true either.
Well, we *do* know one thing: the US Postal Service definitely would not deliver a firearm to a P.O. Box.
The way it works is simple; If you can’t prove Oswald’s guilt, stop slandering him. And you can’t prove his guilt, because two men who very badly wanted to do so admitted that they couldn’t – “The case (against Oswald) as it stands right now isn’t very very strong…..not strong enough to obtain a conviction”. – J. Edgar Hoover. & it was either Chief Curry or Captain Fritz (always get those two confused) who said years after, “Nobody yet has been able to put that man, Oswald, in that window, with that gun in his hands, doing the shooting”. So stop slandering the man, albeit posthumously.
If the wallet was “planted” at the Tippet murder scene (big if),it would suggest that the post assassination “conspiracy plot” was not going according to plan whether or not Oswald was witting or unwitting. The “plant” may have been an in the moment decision by the plotters to tie Oswald to the Tippet murder scene (which had not gone according to plan or was not part of the plan). This was coupled with the strong possibility that Oswald was truly on the lamb from the plotters and was not likely to be apprehended by the authorities in the short term. Otherwise, the risk of Oswald carrying a wallet with him from the boarding house would be to great a risk to “plant” a second wallet at the Tippet murder scene. Especially if the plan was to have Oswald end up at the the theater to meet a contact, be killed, or be apprehended. The “planting of the wallet” scenario would suggest the plotters didn’t expect Oswald to be carrying a wallet to the theater. The “wallet planting” only makes sense if the theater climax was a random event. For me the only other plausible explanation is the “planting of the wallet” was a miscalculation given that Oswald could have also been carrying a wallet. An Oswald wallet at the Tippet scene and a second one in Oswald’s possession at the theater does present a problem for the sole assassin believers. Certainly all can agree that a person does not carry two wallets at one time.
Others will present the idea that there were “two Oswalds” in the theater or Oswald’s behavior in the theater suggested he thought he was meeting an unknown contact. I am not convinced. I believe it was a random hiding place for a person who knew he was in deep trouble. Some have argued Oswald’s planned destination was Ruby’s nearby house. If true, Oswald probably had realized that going there was a death sentence. While sitting in the theater he probably was feeling at loss on what next to do next. Being this befuddled might help explain why he forgot to pay for his movie ticket.
Phil Gurholt writes:
“I believe it (the theater) was a random hiding place for a person who knew he was in deep trouble. Some have argued Oswald’s planned destination was Ruby’s nearby house. If true, Oswald probably had realized that going there was a death sentence.”
I’ve been a conspiracist since 11/24/63. I believe Oswald killed Tippit . . . but did not take a shot at Kennedy.
My POV: Oswald had a wallet with two IDs because he thought he would need a fake ID during and after his prearranged escape from Dallas. The escape involved others and the rendezvous point was Ruby’s apartment or nearby. [Oswald was walking in that direction when he encountered Tippit.]
Tippit was on an errand from Ruby to change the rendezvous. Everyone knows what that means. Ruby was double-crossing Oswald. Oswald smelled a trap. I think it’s probable that Oswald took out his wallet and showed Tippit his Hidell ID as proof that he wasn’t Oswald. That didn’t work.
Oswald dropped his wallet as he fumbled to access his pistol. Police found the wallet at the crime scene. They carried it to the Texas Theater and then claimed they removed it from Oswald’s back pocket. Police botched the chain of custody and then covered their asses.
[The Dallas cops were completely unprepared for the global spotlight. Indeed, in 1963 no police force would have looked very competent under such scrutiny. Imagine LAPD. The Dallas cops made a thousand mistakes. Gotta be careful not to frame those mistakes as conspiracies.]
Could be, or it could be that he would have had to get the attention of Julia Postal, who was out of the box office on the sidewalk watching the cop cars rush by.
Getting her attention might have seemed risky, and maybe it was less risky just to slip in.
Had Johnny Calvin Brewer not been following him, it might have succeeded.
No member of Dallas DPD filed a timely report describing recovery of a wwallet from suspect Oswald’s person. Various DPD officers made conflicting statments about recovery of a wallet from Oswald’s person. DPD Paul Bentley and an Hidell ID recovered in a wallet alongside Oswald ID from Oswald’s person was not recorded until Hill’s tetsimony on April 8,1964.
Bentley himself had not mentioned Hidell ID in his TV interview, nor in any filed report. He was not on the record until June 11,1964.:
https://www.google.com/#q=%22june+11%2C+1964%22+bookhout+bentley+hidell
FBI Agent Clements filed a report describing Hidell ID he did not link the wallet to a DPD officer.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/clements.htm
Mr. CLEMENTS. “…he was being taken out for a lineup. While he was gone I examined the contents of his wallet which was there on the desk, and identified to me as Oswald’s wallet. ”
Images of this 23 Nov. FBI report:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,9612.msg279540.html#msg279540
In contrast, unimportant billfolds found at the Paine home by DPD were properly numbered and placed on a timely filed evidence list.: CE2003, #114 (brown) and #382 (red). “The” wallet went out of Dallas with with no evidence number in the dead of night (27 Nov.).:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,9612.msg279445.html#msg279445
Some believe the 27 Nov. wallet was secretly sent to the FBI lab in DC days earlier, and then back to Dallas.
Since there is no timely chain of custody related to discovery anywhere of
an Oswald wallet containing dual ID, this Tippit wallet seems a distraction.
Dale Myers addressed this issue in March. WFAA lifted virtually all of the information in the report from his book without Dale’s approval or knowledge, despite a ” courtesy of Dale Myers” note during the report.
Tom Scully wins the Kewpie doll. This wallet is NOT admissible in a court of law and should be disregarded as evidence. Period. Read John Armstrong’s “Harvey and Lee” to find all the evidence of subterfuge in the framing of Lee Oswald… Therefore there is no court admissible evidence connecting Oswald to the Mannlicher Carcano purchased by Alek Hidell…
Folks, the film showing the Tippit scene wallet was first written about by Dale Myers in 1998. Please read what he says about it here and in other articles at his site, since he has surely studied the wallet issue more than anyone else:
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html
Consider this — the suspect’s ID supposedly turns up at the murder scene, yet no officer there calls headquarters to report finding this important clue. So far as we know, not a single lawman or witness present says a word about this wallet or seeing Oswald’s ID for over 30 years — it’s not in any contemporary police report, interview, or testimony, including the testimony/reports of Barrett, Westbrook, and Croy.
Barrett didn’t lie, he evidently misremembered when and where Westbrook asked him about the two names. Barrett saw Westbrook with the wallet at the scene and then both men went to the theater and from there to the police station. Thirty years later it would be easy to misremember when and where they had this conversation.
Westbrook’s 2-page report on Oswald’s arrest is here, no wallet is mentioned:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/07/0705-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/07/0705-002.gif
Here’s the 11/22 report by Officers Poe and Jez:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/21/2197-001.gif
(Click on the pages to enlarge)
I’ve followed this argument from a distance for several years now, but I have to say that at this point, the “single-wallet theorists” are winning the argument. Rockstool made an argument, based upon the photos, that the wallet in question is the wallet in the archives. Myers countered this argument using the photos. If there is no detailed response to Myers’ argument, IMO, his argument is likely to stand.
That won’t end the debate, of course, but move it back to square one…that there was a wallet found at the Tippit scene that subsequently disappeared.
John Armstrong maintains there were FIVE wallets:
1. the wallet found at the Tippit murder scene, which was never inventoried and which disappeared
2. the wallet Bentley took from Oswald
3. two wallets recovered from the Paine residence, which were given FBI numbers and which are in the national archives
4. the wallet furnished to Marina from her room in the Paine residence, which contained $170 or $180
It’s clear to me Rockstool is maintaining one of the ##2-4 wallets is the #1 wallet. I think he’s wrong.
Come on people, I’m half way through reading this and this is the first mention of the Armstrong information? Armstrong has basically solved the case in my mind. Spend $85 on Amazon and become enlightened!
Armstrong is counting the same wallet twice.
His #4 is one of two wallets at the Paine house — a black plastic bank promotional giveaway in which Oswald kept their meager savings (they had no bank account). The other one at the Paine house was a red wallet belonging to Marina (what, the wife can’t have a billfold, too?).
Here’s a document explaining the black plastic wallet:
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=9893&relPageId=311
The wallet Oswald was carrying makes a total of three.
Jean,
I have to ask, why are Americans having to question and debate how many wallets Oswald owned and what the wallets contained?
The answer to me is clear: The true facts have been blurred by government agencies. So that the American people are prevented from knowing for sure what occurred in Dallas.
You would have the rest here believe there has been no deliberate blurring of facts by government agencies in the JFK case; that all is crystal clear. The thing is, everywhere one turns in this case one finds inconsistencies and contradictions.
The case is like LHO himself, one big mystery, one big cover story, one big lie.
Jonathan,
It shouldn’t be surprising that there are a large number of “inconsistencies and contradictions.” There are well over a million pages of testimony/documents involving hundreds, maybe thousands, of witnesses and official investigators, all of them fallible. On top of that, this huge record has been examined intensely for decades by people who are searching for anything at all that is unexplained or “looks funny.” No other murder case in history has ever been examined this extensively and intensely.
If all the “inconsistencies” were really clues and not meaningless anomalies that might turn up in some other record this huge, why is it that no one has explained what all these discrepancies are supposed to mean? If the WC narrative isn’t what happened, what’s the alternative story?
Explain the Tippit scene wallet, e.g., from the conspirators’ point of view — nobody has done that. “It was planted” is not a narrative that shows what CTs think may have happened. Did somebody create the two IDs and then carry the wallet around on 11/22, knowing that Oswald would leave the TSBD… or what??
Michael T. Griffith provides a detailed response to Myers’ arguments here:
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/tippit.pdf
(Griffith notes grammatical and spelling errors so I wonder if the use of ‘Malace’ is intentional).
Thanks for the Myers link. It explains a lot but :
– we still have an unidentified wallet found at or near the Tippit murder scene. Who did it belong to if not Oswald?
– Barrett feels pretty strongly about this and admits that he waited almost 50 years to challenge the official Dallas police story because he wanted to protect his career.
Neil,
The owner of the wallet is unknown, but the fact that none of the policemen in the film reported it suggests that it wasn’t connected to the case or considered to be important, imo.
I don’t think the reason Barrett gave for not mentioning the wallet until years later makes sense, but his silence required some kind of explanation. Psychologists have found that when people form a false memory, as I think Barrett did, they will often rationalize (unconsciously make up details) to fill in the gaps. Here’s a brief example I found online — right side of this page:
http://the-mouse-trap.blogspot.com/2006/06/memories-memories-and-more-memories.html
And an article by memory expert Elizabeth Loftus:
http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/2003Nature.pdf
– Even if the person who owned the wallet was cleared of any involvement with Tippit’s murder, the wallet at the scene should’ve been documented. We should know who the owner was. That it wasn’t identified and we don’t know who it belonged to leaves us with some serious questions and doesn’t allow us to put to bed the rumor or uncorroborated claim that the wallet was linked to Oswald somehow
– I don’t like to play amateur psychiatrist but Barrett’s statement on this issue sounds more like a confession from a man who decided to come clean after 50 years. It’s not a matter of him misremembering. It’s a matter of him admitting that he kept his mouth shut and chose not to put himself in the middle of any controversies for 50 years.
I don’t think Barrett’s statements alone is sufficient for me to conclude the wallet belonged to or was connected to Oswald. However, the lack of documentation identifying the wallet shown in the films makes it impossible to assume that it was innocently omitted from the documented evidence…
Jean,
I believe the officer examining the wallet in the WFAA film were examining a thing of great interest to them. The WFAA is focused on their hands as they handle the wallet. Hands are expressive.
More telling to me is DPD officer McDonalds’s statement Julia Postal heard, “We have our man on both counts.” How could officer McDonald believe the person just arrested in the Texas Theater had killed both J.D. Tippit (just a few minutes ago) and JFK (1:20 hours ago).
I don’t trust officer McDonald or his statements. But they reveal a reliance on the Tippit-scene wallet, which is most important.
Jonathan: you state “More telling to me is DPD officer McDonalds’s statement Julia Postal heard, “We have our man on both counts.” How could officer McDonald believe the person just arrested in the Texas Theater had killed both J.D. Tippit (just a few minutes ago) and JFK (1:20 hours ago).”
I had a similar exchange with Jean Davison if I recall correctly, among others several months ago. Why did the officer at the theater say “both counts,” then Oswald is arrested and indicted on Tippit’s murder only … until hours later when he is indicted on the murder of Kennedy? How did McDonald know the man arrested in the theater was a suspect in the Kennedy assassination? and if Oswald was as suspect, why wasn’t he indicted for the Kennedy assassination immediately? Too soon? The press wouldn’t buy it. Authorities needed a few more hours to get that rifle and those shells into evidence? In the meantime, “officer down,” passions are ignited, fuel on the fire of hatred for Oswald, and victory, ‘don’t worry folks, The DPD Got Their Man.’ I think the timing of those in the DPD with inside knowledge of what had just happened to Our Nation was slightly off. Unfortunately for them, Officer McDonald almost ‘blew the pooch,” at the Texas Theatre, except that we are still being confronted by apologists insisting his statement has no merit.
Study the Justice of the Peace who indicted Oswald. Study the JP who signed off on Kennedy’s body being removed from Parkland to be shipped to Bethesda.
Jonathan,
Review the TV coverage for 11/22 and I think you’ll find that the media quickly assumed there was likely a connection between JFK’s murder and the shooting of a policeman in a nearby neighborhood about 45 minutes later. Cop shootings weren’t common in Dallas in 1963, and JFK’s killer had apparently fled the scene.
Also, at 1:28 someone asked the police dispatcher if there was any indication the two shootings were connected, and the dispatcher replied, “Well, the descriptions on the suspect are similar and it is possible.” Transcript here:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm
Jean,
So what? I don’t care about anyone’s uninformed opinion.
I’ll buy your explanation of the JFK assassination, Jean. I’ve got an open mind. Give me an explanation that doesn’t conflict with the historical record.
How can you not say it doesn’t make sense? So Rookstool, Croy and Hosty suffer the same affliction?
We know that Parkland doctors and Bethesda autopsy technicians were instructed or ordered to keep their mouths shut for the good of their career and to protect their institutions.
I doubt that an FBI agent would say something contrary to the WCR and contend with J. Edgar Hoover.
Like these FBI agents said: The cops reported one story (they couldn’t have two floating around and neither did they want to reconcile them).
How ironic that Elizabeth Loftus has been introduced in this exchange.
“Loftus took her first academic appointment in 1970 at the New School for Social Research in New York City.[3] Her research during her time there focused on the organization of semantic information in longterm memory.” (from her bio.)
A rising star of the New School was Beatrice Bishop Berle, wife of Adolf Berle, State Department, OAS, present in Sao Paulo during the 1964 coup, and Board of Nationwide Insurance for whom William Hyde, father of Ruth Paine was employed, Berle’s prized endorsement of the Human Ecology Fund, Cornell University, enabled the MKUltra experiments. A key component of MKU training was the admonishment: “Remember to Forget.” Funny how memory was a significant focus of the operation, and that some years later, Ms. Loftus took up the mantle … perhaps to address those on whom the experiments had worn off? I’m not suggesting Barrett had been programmed; I am questioning the ethics of anyone that would parade Ms. Loftus’ expertise without acknowledging the spirit behind her training.
According to David Price, St. Martin’s University as published in “Anthropology Today” Vol. 23,No. 3, June 2007: https://www.wikileaks.org/w/images/AT-june07-Price-PT1.pdf
There are many elements of Human Ecology-funded
research whose articulation with CIA needs is still poorly
understood. For example, the funded bioelectrics research,
or programmes establishing psychiatric scales, or group
psychology studies may have been incorporated into the
CIA’s secret research on interrogation, or they may merely
have provided an air of legitimacy for the foundation
– obviously, psychiatric scales could be useful instru-
ments for interrogators gauging interrogation subjects’
mental health and responses. Questions remain concerning
what the Human Ecology Fund’s interest was in funding
Dr Beatrice Berle’s research on the impact of illness on
families in Harlem (HEF 1963). It may simply be that
the Fund was providing a Board member’s spouse with a
nepotistic kickback unrelated to MK-Ultra’s desires (Berle
was the wife of HEF Board member, educator, diplomat
and cold warrior Adolf Berle), but given the CIA’s record
of experimental abuse of prisoners and low-ranking sol-
diers (Biderman and Zimmer 1961, Marks 1979), we may
justifiably wonder what their interest in other relatively
disempowered and poor populations may have been. Other
listed Human Ecology-funded studies had obvious appli-
cations to MK-Ultra projects studying counterinsurgency
and propaganda. These include funded studies examining
revolutions, refugee studies, Chinese personality types,
Chinese family structure, Soviet psychology, cross-cultural
communication, and various studies examining elements of psychological
profiling.
Leslie, your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything remotely connected with the assassination, nor frankly with anything , period. What is your point? Your posting is a classic example of how bipolar individuals express themselves, without punctuation, identifiable verb or object. Is there a question at the end of your statement?
Photon, I’m sorry if I have struck a cord. If my comment has no relevance, why bother challenging it?.
I would suggest a mantra for you, an antidote to the programming you appear to have been subjected to: “Don’t Forget to Remember.” The bi-polar condition you reference eventually surfaces in all those inducted into the service of counter-intelligence and unjustified wars. I suspect you are struggling to identify your condition and the said cause.
Remember who you are at your core, who you were meant to be, not the shell you are in danger of becoming.
Photon’s confused.
A true photon is a unit or packet of electromagnetic energy moving at the speed of light. It can have one of two polarizations but is never described as being bi-polar.
I agree with John Kirsch. A low point.
And what was the “spirit behind her training?”
You post is simply about how she was at the New School and somebody else at the New School was connected to somebody else who was connected to somebody else whose agenda you consider sinister.
Given your “logic,” everybody in the whole world could be “outed” as sinister.
Jean, your links do nothing for me in offering any clarification of the wallet evidence in the WFAA report.
Myers admits his own continuing confusion at the end of his article:
“Fifty years on, despite considerable effort to unravel this curious episode, numerous conflicts remain, which leaves this tantalizing allegation distinctly – and perhaps forever – out of focus.”
A wallet is filmed at the Tippit murder scene that an officer and an FBI agent both later say is the Oswald wallet with the Hidell ID tying him to the rifle found in the TSBD.
The fact the wallet doesn’t show up in any official report doesn’t make it less suspicious, it makes it more so.
If it’s not Oswald’s wallet, who’s wallet was it? Presumably it had identification — was that person ever contacted as the prime suspect in the Tippit shooting?
How could a wallet found at the scene of a crime NOT be included in any police report or in those two supposedly exhaustive government investigations by the WC and HSCA?
Myers says:
“Anyone with a brain knows that if Oswald’s wallet had been found at the Tippit murder scene it would have been printed in every newspaper and broadcast on every radio and television station in America before the end of the day, Friday, November 22, 1963.”
Anyone with a brain knows that a wallet found at a crime scene is entered in a police report, isn’t it?
And the he says this:
“Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had seven or so identification cards in it, and that none were in the name of Oswald.”
If that’s true, then who the hell’s ID was it and why wasn’t it immediately followed up on by the DPD, the FBI, et al?
What your links prove to me one of two things:
1) If it’s not Oswald’s wallet, then evidence that pointed to anyone other than Oswald was being suppressed or overlooked right from the start.
2) If the wallet did contain Oswald’s ID, then “evidence” of Oswald’s guilt that might’ve pointed to a set-up was being suppressed right from the start.
It’s amazing to me we have filmed evidence of a key piece of evidence that has never been explained in any government investigation. Once again in this case we’re asked:
Are you going to believe the official story or your own lying eyes?
I agree 100%
Assuming the DPD didn’t know who Oswald was and didn’t have any suspects for the Tippit shooting when the wallet was found, it’s incredible that a mysterious wallet found at or near the Tippit murder scene would’ve been viewed as having no evidentry value.
Neil,
The wallet is “mysterious” to us but evidently not to the men examining it in the film, because the evidence indicates they decided it wasn’t relevant or important enough to call in to headquarters on one of the police radios right there at the scene. If that’s not the reason it wasn’t called in *immediately*, how do explain that?
Westbrook’s written report, WC testimony, and interview for “No More Silence” mention no such wallet. Westbrook said that after Oswald’s arrest at the theater he asked Oswald his name and he refused to identify himself. He *didn’t* ask, “Are you Oswald or are you Hidell? I’ve got your two IDs right here.”
As usual the frame-up squad is everywhere and as usual it does wacky things, like plant a wallet to frame Oswald and then right away get a host of people to cover it up and say nothing about it for decades.
If it has no significance as evidence, no, it isn’t.
That would be the case if it was quickly found to belong to somebody who was known, and was not in any way a suspect.
Again, if it belonged to somebody on the scene who was not a suspect nor had any connection with the crime (except perhaps being a witness or somebody known to have arrived on the scene shortly after the shooting) there would be no need to “follow up.”
You only “follow up” when there is something to follow up.
The fact that it’s a mystery to us doesn’t mean it was a mystery to the cops on the scene.
If you find a wallet at a crime scene, you most ceratinly take it and tag it. Whether or not it’s evidence is determined later, not at the scene. If it belonged to someone at the scene, how do you know that it/they had no connection to the crime? If someone dropped it while the cops were there, I suppose you could return it then. Otherwise it goes.
I think later corroboration by the FBI agent and the signed photo by the first DPD officer at the scene, it is very difficult to dismiss that the billfold was inconsequential to the case.
As I think you’ve stated on occasion, John, CTs would question a photo of Oswald shooting from the sixth floor. This is a video and photographic record and corroborated personal recollection of something awry with a key piece of evidence. Not to mention Rookstool’s analysis that it matches the wallet in the archives.
Bogman,
The Tippit scene wallet isn’t the wallet in the National Archives, as Rookstool argued.
Comparison photos online show that the two wallets are NOT the same — they’re very similar but not identical. Look at the shape of the flaps (one with squared-off edges, one with tapered edges) and the length of the metal strip:
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html
Jean, so your argument is that DPD and the FBI examined a wallet at the scene of the Tippit murder and it was meaningless as evidence so was never officially recorded. But it just happens to match the Oswald billfold in the archives so closely that an FBI analyst is fooled.
Just want to be clear. Because if that’s your argument, I can’t buy it.
John,
Why did you write this? Anything found at a crime scene is of potential evidentiary significance. Be it blood, fingerprints, a wallet. Evidenciary significance may be inculpatory or exculpatory. Your comment makes no sense as a matter of law.
“Again, if it belonged to somebody on the scene who was not a suspect nor had any connection with the crime (except perhaps being a witness or somebody known to have arrived on the scene shortly after the shooting) there would be no need to “follow up.””
The only way I could see that as a plausible scenario is if the someone who somehow dropped a wallet near Tippit’s body was a Law Enforcement Officer.
There’s no way a bystander’s wallet could be found at the scene of a serious crime and the bystander not be considered a potential witness or a suspect. Remember, until Oswald’s arrest at the Texas Theatre, there were no suspects.
Unless it was not “found” but rather the bystander took it out to identify himself.
John – But the wallet so closely matches the Oswald wallet In the archives that an FBI analyst is fooled? And the first responding officer and FBI agent both recall the wallet with Hidell ID?
The likely source of a wallet at the scene of a cop murder… is the cop detained someone and asked them to produce ID. A scuffle ensues and the cop edns up dead. The wallet is CERTAINLY evidence that points to a top suspect.
I’m unaware of DPD putting out an APB for anyone, beside the general description given of LHO. This is an inconsistency which cannot be overstated. Whoever’s name appeared in that wallet would certainly have been a person of interest, at minimum.
It’s silly to suggest otherwise.
(Tom S. notes – in 2015, this commenter submitted one comment under the I.D., “TO Eliason”.)
“Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had seven or so identification cards in it, and that none were in the name of Oswald.”
This comment is leading to different ID’s from each other, too many to remember and why would a wallet have 7 identification cards even of the same person but then that person should be recalled after 7 readings.
it seems Oswald had reportedly only two, Hidell and Oswald, but wouldn’t 7 using common sense in this case of many Oswald’s overall mean a suspect wanted the world to know he was an agent also working under orders? I think so.
Barret “Misremembered”?? Isn’t it also possible that it was Mr. Westbrook who “Misremebered” on purpose?
This is the most important post since I’ve been posting here, since early 2013. It establishes Oswald was framed for the murders of J.D. Tippit and JFK.
This post has few comments. I’ll add this:
Tippit’s murder was pre-planned. The planted wallet proves this.
McAdams and Photon should address this post. It undermines their ideas of what happened.
Agreed. But get ready for the “single wallet theory.”
bogman, that’s hilarious!
Jean Davison is addressing this quite nicely, thank you.
Finding a wallet at a murder scene means either there was a wallet dropped by the murderer, along with the spent cartridges, or someone was pre-prepared to plant evidence. It does not mean the murder was pre-planned. At the theater Oswald raised his hands and said it was all over but then was involved in a scuffle as there was another attempt to plant evidence on him.
Again, this raises more questions than answers. If true, how come this is not in any contemporaneous account? And again logically, if true this means almost certainly Officer Tippit’s killer was Oswald, or an imposter. I know there are reports of a double in the vicinity of the Texas Theatre, however is it more likely Oswald was the assassin of Tippit, rather than an imposter? It gets really convoluted, and easy to overlook a lot of evidence and pin it on an imposter. It’s kind of Dealey Plaza in reverse, where there is so much evidence of someone shooting from the Grassy Knoll area that to completely deny it all, along with the statements from both hospitals is disingenuous. As it stands, I’m about 2/3 convinced LHO shot Tippit, and 50/50 whether Tippit was part of the conspiracy. My mind is open though.
Thanks for posting this Mr. Simpich. I’ve been going to read your book as I understand It’s free on MFF. Also wanted to read Mr.McBride’s for a while but I still prefer hard copies and it’s a little pricey for a poor fella.
So we have an officer being handed Oswald’s wallet at the Tippett murder scene before Oswald is arrested at the Texas Theater. Hmmm. Does sound a little fishy if another officer took it out of his pocket after his arrest.
Another interesting aspect to me is the real ID and the alias ID in the same wallet. I could see an undercover agent having a wallet with his alias info for use while working and another wallet with his real ID for when he was not. But to have both in one would have to be an intelligence no-no. If caught with such by the “enemy”, your screwed.
BTW, wasn’t that O’s favorite tv show as a kid, I Had Three Wallets? Oh yeah, that was I Led 3 Lives.
Seems incredible that Oswald would leave such a convenient trail of incriminating evidence in his wake as made his way to be captured at the Texas Theater. Phoney ID to tie him to the murder of the POTUS; spent cartridge shells from the pistol he just committed more murder with! What was the boy thinking?
James Earl Ray, we’re told, did the same thing. Left a treasure trove of stuff implicating him on the sidewalk right outside the rooming house from which the government said he fired the shot that killed MLK.
Not too many years ago, attorney William Pepper convinced a Memphis jury in a civil lawsuit that a particular individual other than Ray, a local bar owner, was responsible for MLK’s death.
The New York Times of course carried that story on its front page (just kidding).
The point is, “throw-down” inculpatory material was used in the MLK assassination. Here in the JFK case, as Arnaldo writes, the government buried the too-obviously-planted inculpatory wallet.
Not to be the nay-sayer, but my recollection is that the only thing linking Ray to the scene was a print on the rifle, and that that print was a dead end at that time–as the FBI had no system in place for finding perps based on one print. My recollection is that the FBI was embarrassed by its inability to find King’s killer, and thereby went the extra distance–and had its fingerprint analysts go through the prints of thousands of white-power types, and then and only then the men on the most wanted list–which included Ray due to his recent escape from prison. The ID of Ray’s print was purportedly a lucky break.
Now, this, of course, raises another question. Was someone in the FBI “steering” the investigation towards Ray?
Pretty sure the bundle dropped in front of Canipe’s had several items tied to Ray aside from the rifle, including a radio or something like that with his prisoner number carved into it.
Of course the rifle itself was never tied to the murder of MLK Jr.
Not sure I get why it would have been professionally hazardous for an FBI agent to question a Dallas police detective? The article does not make that clear.
In the WFAA interview from 11/23/63 linked below, Detective Paul Bentley mentions removing Oswald’s wallet from his back pocket. But now the conspiracy theorists can pretend Bentley was a liar because he ALSO mentions seeing things like “a driver’s license and credit cards” in Oswald’s wallet too (and we know Oswald had none of those items).
But it’s fairly obvious from the language being utilized by Bentley in this Nov. 23 TV interview (“…and things like that…”) that Bentley didn’t examine in great detail every item in LHO’s billfold. He ASSUMED the cards were ordinary things like driver’s license and credit cards. ….
http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/nick-mcdonald-and-paul-bentley.html
David:
First, you are assuming what Bentley assumed.
Second, police are trained to look at the details of the things they find. This wasn’t a casual event, it was a murder investigation in which every detail is critical. If he wasn’t a liar, he was extremely incompetent and speaking completely out of school.
David,
I don’t believe Bentley was lying at all in the interview to which you link. His comment about the wallet was very much in passing and un-rehearsed.
I don’t believe Barrett is lying either. He’s got no reason to lie. If anything, what he told WFAA gives the lie to the Warren Report.
Ipso facto, 1-2-3 wallets, as Arnaldo writes. Time to open a real investigation into the murders of JFK and J.D. Tippit.
And we have the wallet left at the Paine house the morning of 11/22, mentioned by the Warren Report – “His wallet containing $170 was left intact in a dresser-drawer.”
I’ve personally never used more than one wallet at a time.
That’s news to me. I would love to see an answer from McAdams on why Oswald kept at least two separate wallets, according to the WC and DPD.
So it’s some kind of Iron Law that nobody has two wallets?
The wallet left in Irving contained money he was leaving for Marina.
There isn’t any Iron Law on two wallets, but it’s surprising to have three.
The WC states what DPD reported: Oswald’s wallet was taken from him after being arrested at the Texas Theater.
FBI agent Bob Barrett appears on film handling a wallet that he later said had the Oswald&Hidell identification inside.
And there is another police report about a wallet Oswald left at the Paine´s home the very morning of November 22, 1963.
The “three wallets problem” is a conspiracy fact since DPD suppressed the one found at the Tippit scene to avoid the argument that it was planted.
Yes, three wallets (lol).
At home, at DP Stn and at the Tippit scene (was called in by officer or detective IIRC).
Just shows there’s no such thing as the perfect conspiracy.
It’s a Man Law.
Most men use the same wallet for years. They don’t change wallets like women change purses…
Oswald could hardly afford to put anything in one wallet let alone two or more.
Plus there’s an ID problem because which wallet contained the ID documentation ?
John:
You “iron law” jibe displays total contempt for historical research. Sure, anything is possible. But a serious historical researcher weighs possibilities to come up with more probable solutions.
Is it possible that Oswald had multiple wallets that just happened to be found at incriminating spots filled with incriminating materials, and is it possible that the contradictions in the police accounts were honest and inadvertent mistakes.
But given the weight of evidence, the fact that it would not be normal for a guy to have two wallets let alone three, the unlikelihood that someone in his position would leave incriminating evidence strewn about, that he admitted to being a patsy, was killed before he could talk and all the other strange and illogical events surrounding the investigation, it takes an incredible amount of willful ignorance to take the “well, sure anything is possible and I believe the most unlikely possibility” attitude.
No, because no such thing happened.
Yes, it’s normal for witness testimony to contain contradictions.
But here, the real “evidence” about the “extra wallet” is decades-old testimony. That’s particularly unreliable.
It’s also fair to point out that a man who uses to two different names would possibly be more likely to use two wallets.
But not to have one of the wallets with an evidence of the link between the two different names. And actually, there were three wallets in evidence: one in the WC Report, one at the Tippit´s murder scene, and one at Paine´s house.
A man who uses two different names would not keep the corresponding ID cards in the same wallet. The question remains.
Why not just leave the $$ in an envelope? Why leave it in a wallet then take a second wallet when leaving the apt? And what about the wallet said to be found in his back pocket? Along with the wallet at the Tippit scene, that makes three. Mr. McAdams, turn in your Mockingbird membership card.
That’s right. Whenever I am paying at the grocery store I usually hand over my wallet with the money, and if I leave money for someone, I don’t just leave the money, I leave my wallet with it. And that is why I have at least three or four copies of my IDs, one for each of my three wallets, and a spare.
An additional question: So according to the official record, Oswald had two wallets but made sure he took the one that tied him to the assassination? Amazing.
Oddly, when he was arrested in New Orleans during the summer, his wallet contained no “Hidell” identification. But we’re supposed to believe that he was dumb enough to carry it around with him on the day of the assassination.
I wonder why Sgt.Croy made no reference to the wallet,when he gave his testimony to the WC’s Burt Griffin?
Rookstool seems loose with his language : regardless of whether he is right or wrong , he should not speak of Croy’s “testimony” if he means “interview”.
Croy seems not to have made reference to much. I believe he was the first officer on the scene, but I don’t think he made a report. His story about how he came to be at the scene is odd. He apparently heard the call on a police radio in his personal car, and responded. But he said that he got there when they were loading Tippit into the ambulance. Inasmuch as the ambulance had only a very short distance to respond, and they got Tippit out of there quickly, Croy would have had a job to get there as quickly as he said he did. He apparently was the first person to talk to Helen Markham, but made no report on that. Myers told of a policeman who was trysting in a nearby house with someone other than his wife, and told responding officers what he saw. Makes me wonder even more about Croy.
Here’s what Julia Postal says:
Mr. BALL. And you didn’t see him actually enter the theatre then?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir.
So we only have the word of one witness that anyone went into the theater without paying. Any other witnesses on Jefferson come forward with testimony about this wild person evading the police? Just Johnny Brewer? Johnny Brewer claims in his testimony that he pointed out Oswald to the police. Is that really what happened? And this is a little off topic, but Mr. Brewer says something very interesting during his testimony:
Mr. BREWER – And somebody hollered “He’s got a gun.”
And there were a couple of officers fighting him and taking the gun away from him, and they took the gun from him, and he was fighting, still fighting, and I heard some of the police holier, I don’t know who it was, “Kill the President, will you.” And I saw fists flying and they were hitting him.
If Mr. Brewer’s recollection is accurate here, as you are assuming his recollection that Oswald slipped into the theater is, how did the police know this?
In the first place, Johnny Calvin Brewer told her, and asked her to call the cops.
In the second place, you have posted a misleading passage from Postal’s testimony. Here is more:
So she did see Oswald, but apparently was not looking at the moment he ducked in.
Sorry Dr., it still doesn’t wash. Someone ducked around the corner, but Mrs. Postal testified she didn’t see anyone “enter” the theater. I’m no doctor, but I think that means “go inside.”
And while I’m here, do you think Brewer really heard a policeman say anything to Oswald about killing the President?
If the wallet in question is as Barrett says, Oswald was framed for both Tippit’s and JFK’s murder. Here’s why.
Focus on Bentley’s story of finding a wallet in Oswald’s back pocket. If that story is TRUE, the wallet in question is clearly a second wallet used to frame Oswald; also if Bentley’s story is true and the wallet in question is a second wallet prepared in advance of Tippit’s killing, Tippit’s murder was pre-planned.
If Bentley’s story of finding a wallet in Oswald’s back pocket is FALSE and the only wallet is the wallet in question, one must ask the obvious questions: (1) Why did Bentley lie? (2) Why did the law enforcement authorities not use the wallet obtained at the Tippit murder scene to tie Oswald to Tippit’s murder, as WFAA has done? These questions do not have plausible answers, which means Bentley must have found a second wallet.
Meaning Oswald was framed.
Also this fits into the frame up which since i was being set up too, I found that the Usher at the Texas Theater told me that Oswald was in the Show before Tippit was killed. His name is Butch Burrows and just to connect all the other prefabricated dots of the Big Event with many twists to blow minds, Burrows said they took Oswald s twin out the back door a few minutes after they took Lee Oswald out the front.
Check Burrows’ Warren Commission testimony. He changed his story quite a bit after that and before he started telling the story you just recounted in the 1980s.
Also, check the testimony of Johnny Calvin Brewer and Julia Postal. They make it clear that Oswald entered the theater after Tippit was shot, and indeed after he had time to walk from the scene of the Tippit shooting to the Texas Theater.
Butch Burroughs was actually never asked by the Warren Commission about anything preceding 1:30 PM. Other witnesses inside the theater also saw Oswald well before the official story places his entrance. Oswald moved from seat to seat and momentarily sat down directly beside several persons. The witnesses inside the theater were mostly ignored, and many of the initial statements – such as from Brewer and Postal – were not taken for several weeks, in itself unusual in this case.
There is also a clothing discrepancy. Tippit’s assailant was ID’ed as wearing a “white shirt”, while Oswald was arrested wearing a brown shirt. The man who allegedly snuck into the theater was described as going to the balcony, but Oswald was seated on the main floor.
As well, DPD officers were directed to Oswald by a man in the theater who remains unidentified (similar to the “5’10” 165lb” description provided in Dealey Plaza by an unidentified and unknown man).
jeffc, excellent information, and I for one thank you for highlighting these details. I anticipate you will be challenged; could you offer a general source ie. Warren Commission records, and/or?
Jeff,
There was no clothing discrepancy. The Tippit suspect was described as wearing a white shirt AND a white jacket (which would’ve mostly covered the brown shirt, leaving only some of his white t-shirt showing). Oswald ditched the jacket before he got to the theater.
The WC asked Burroughs if he’d seen the man the police arrested when he came into the theater and Burroughs said he had not. IOW, he denied seeing Oswald enter the theater, period, no matter *when* he supposedly came in. Later on his story, like Jean Hill’s, got much more
“interesting.”
Julia Postal assumed the suspect went up to the balcony specifically because Burroughs hadn’t seen him come in. There was a stairway near the entrance leading to the balcony that kids sometimes used to sneak in. But there was another stairway down to the main floor that Oswald could’ve used, so there really is no contradiction.
Postal and Burroughs explained this when they testified:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burroughs.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/postal.htm
The idea that a “mystery man” ID-ed Oswald is a myth. Brewer waited for the police at an exit door and let them in. McDonald later found out his name and recognized him as the same man:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/mcdonald.htm
Your source was John Armstrong, I assume?
Interesting coincidences around the Oswald-Tippit scenario:
* Julia Postals, who worked the ticket booth at the Texas Theatre, testified to the WC that Office Tippit used to work part-time on weekends at the theatre.
* T.F. White told Wes Wise and the FBI, that he saw Oswald sitting in a parked car at El Chico Restaurant in Oak Cliff, acting ‘suspiciously’, as if he was hiding. He took down the licence plate of the car and it was later traced to Carl Amos Mather, who it turns out, was very good friends with Tippit. In fact, Mather and his wife were visting Tippit’s widow to console her later that afternoon.
To: Jean Davison, two posts below. Once you’ve seen the Executive memos re: The Warren Report, where they say they have the authority to edit/
change testimony toward the goal of showing Lee Oswald was the sole perpetrator, that he had no compatriots in order to calm the country; How can you represent any of the testimony as if it’s the holy word?
What about the Oswald they took out the back of the Theater others witnessed?
Yes!
Check out the following from ‘JFK and the Unspeakable’: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
Once you’re aware of the Katzenbach memo where it states they can edit/change testimony toward the goal of showing Lee Oswald as being the sole perpetrator and that there was no conspiracy: How can you represent any of the testimony as if it’s the holy word?
Yes, and the ticket taker if that is Postal did not see anyone sneak into the theater without paying. Above: Later (She assumed he did) Brewer asked her if she did but she was watching the cop cars racing down the street which was portrayed in the History channel “Tracking Oswald”. Confusion topped with the right of the WC to admittedly change testimony is how they got away with the cover-up and Butch Burrows said they did the same to him, he was scared and only answered what he was asked and went no further. Hugh Aynesworth who knew Ruby, Talked to him at the hospital but in the WC report said he must have talked to someone else. This is how they get away away with murder or at best help change testimony which is exculpatory. No exculpatory evidence was allowed unless they said the witness was mistaken.
You are correct, DPD Captain W.R. Westbrook was the person who brought the 2nd walled to the Tippit murder scene. Oswald was framed for the Tippit murder. You should read “November 22” on the web site:
harveyandlee.net
That is the ridiculous aspect of the wallet saga, why have identical ID’s in all wallets. If I was a CIA agent I could well have multiple identities and would have several wallets but surely not containing my real name as well as my alias.Could happen though , anything is possible . Should Oswald have been stopped for any reason I guess he could produce his fake ID however in this instance it wasn’t even a fake ID it was just reference to the name used to buy a rifle by mail order.Convenient wasn’t it. Surely his intelligence training taught him better than that.This entire episode depicts some of the worst police work I have ever seen.The Dallas police appear to be so far out of their depth as to warrant an investigation into their incompetence.What a sad indictment on Texas policing.Another strange thing in all of this is that Tippets appeared to be without Christian names just initials . Nobody is certain as to what they stood for? How can that be?
Common sense says a wallet in one’s back pocket is not going to be dropped but for some unusual reason. Likely Bennett was telling the truth and a wallet was planted. So the police must have covered up the existence of two wallets.
A wallet appearing at site of Tippits murder does not it mean Tippits murder was planned. It means someone was prepared and had a wallet to plant just in case. And perhaps had many wallets to plant just in case. In these cases, which are not like scripted play inside a theatre, You have to play these things by ear, like a magic or mindreading act. A number of people were in jeapardy of being the patsy. The Spin of the wheel stopped at Oswald.
Great work Bill
I have two questions:
1 – How often do murder suspects leave personal identification at the scene of the crime?
2 – Why would the Dallas PD cover up the fact that Oswald’s wallet was found at the scene of Tippit’s murder? Wouldn’t this evidence have clinched the case for Oswald killing one of their own?
As to #1, you’d be surprised. As to #2. I think that’s the question. It seems like there was certainly a wallet found at the Tippit scene, and that SA Barret said that it had Oswald ID in it. So why be shy about producing the crusher against Oswald in re Tippit? The whole ID business in re Oswald and the Tippit murder seems offbeat. George O’Toole, many years ago, used a PSE on recorded interviews with the participants in Oswald’s ride to jail from the theater (The Assassination Tapes). There were different stories of what ID was found in Oswald’s wallet during that ride, as well as who found it. And almost all of the accounts showed strong indications of deception. So it does appear that something was being hidden.
Thanks for bringing up George O’Toole’s book. It was a fascinating work that pointed to deception by all of the arresting officers regarding the wallet and identification. It wasn’t just one person. If many people are involved in a cover-up it’s called a conspiracy.
It is a fascinating book. Assuming the accuracy of the results (and it seems to have been done in a professional manner), it really does look like there was something going on between the DPD and Oswald. It makes me wonder about a relationship between them that well preceded the assassination.
It does tie in with the police car number 10 honking outside of the rooming house. Ruby had connections with the mafia and corrupt officers in the dallas police dept. Ruby got into the basement unimpeded. He was afraid to talk while in police custody and begged to be taken to Washington.
That could be anyone’s wallet and how do we know who’s I.D. was in it? Period!
Back and to the left.
That’s all i have to say.
Okay here is what I say it’s possible that a Lee oswald look a like killed tippet and planted evidence I have always been interested in this assassination of JFK and I am sorry for the late officer’s wife but he knew what was going to happen. What kind of a cop goes home to hug his family and then says that president Kennedy will be coming though on his motorcade.
I really think tippet was responsible for the killing of JFK and the security of the president are useless they should have had the security guys on the limousine and the motorcycle along side the president but everyone was all for the death of president Kennedy. It makes me sick to think that your own security team can’t take care of you
So you suspect that Tipitt was the murderer and the powers to be took him out and framed Oswald?