Comment of the week

Gerry Simone – June 15

I’ve read your selective info but don’t buy the spin Professor.

Just like the incredible SBT, I don’t believe that a transcript can be confused with a tape and especially a voice not sounding like Oswald. Hoover and others in earlier reports might have made errors like confusing the 5th floor for the 6th floor, but they weren’t material mistakes to the LN scenario. But to say that a transcript doesn’t look or sound like Oswald is a leap. Moreover, and this is even more incredible, you have to have not just Hoover making the same mistake, but also his underlings, which is B.S.!

Jim Garrison’s conclusions were based on ‘the totality of the evidence’, and Rex Bradford does a fine job of doing that in his article here, which I buy.
http://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/FourteenMinuteGap/FourteenMinuteGap.htm#_ftn18

64 comments

  1. Tom S. says:

    Link to prior Cotw – http://jfkfacts.org/22675-2/

    https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
    Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
    This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. …. and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
    ……..
    JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.……

    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?%E2%80%A6d=176&tab=page
    2of2 Garrison 06/18/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
    (Top of right side column)
    …It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency…

    http://jfkfacts.org/rob-tannenbaums-spellbinding-presentation-hscas-thwarted-jfk-investigation/#comment-882661
    John McAdams – June 18, 2016 at 10:42 am

    Fonzi is not reliable.
    ……..
    He also claimed that the CIA had penetrated the Garrison investigation with multiple agents. But he had no evidence of that, and the evidence is clearly that the CIA did not.

    This “Comment of the week,” is an experiment. Doubt is creeping in that it is even possible for a facts influenced discussion to develop, a discussion in which side driven sentiment is overwhelmed by what no participant in the discussion particularly relishes, what the facts actually are telling us if we choose to consider them.

    • JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.……

      What’s the evidence of this?

      Is this the fellow who was drummed out of the CIA in the early 50s?

      Or is it his friend?

      You understand, Tom, that Mellen is absurdly unreliable in her interpretation of evidence, so her opinion means nothing.

      So post evidence for that assertion.

      • Tom S. says:

        Dr. McAdams, both Garrison and Shaw were aware of what you do not want to discuss. Instead you declare Gaeton Fonzi was wrong.
        Fonzi was mistaken, but not to the extent you are. You claim the CIA had no role. Yes, the details indicate the CIA did not infiltrate
        Garrison’s investigation and prosecution, the actual details indicate Garrison and Shaw were wisps of a CIA smokescreen.:

        http://jfkfacts.org/hardway-declaration-cia-stonewalled-jfk-investigation/#comment-880760

        http://jfkfacts.org/hardway-declaration-cia-stonewalled-jfk-investigation/#comment-880767

        I consider what I would have to minimize or ignore to write what Gerry did about Garrison, or your response to Ronnie,
        (see – http://jfkfacts.org/rob-tannenbaums-spellbinding-presentation-hscas-thwarted-jfk-investigation/#comment-882661 )
        and I cannot relate to either of your scenarios because they are incompatible with what I’ve presented. I restrict myself to opinions supported by the details. The details and the behavior of Garrison and Shaw indicate they were similarly restricted, they kept identical secrets, despite this friendly advice.:


        Who had the influence to put both of them on short leashes for the rest of their lives, to bring them both to heel?

        • Yes, the details indicate the CIA did not infiltrate Garrison’s investigation and prosecution, the actual details indicate Garrison and Shaw were wisps of a CIA smokescreen.:

          What in the world does that mean, Tom?

          How about stating in plain English what your position is?

          • Tom S. says:

            What in the world does that mean, Tom?

            How about stating in plain English what your position is?

            http://jfkfacts.org/hardway-declaration-cia-stonewalled-jfk-investigation/#comment-880760
            Tom S. – June 6, 2016 at 10:45 pm
            ………
            INCA DINKA DO*
            by Jerry D. Rose
            This article originally published in The Fourth Decade Vol. 4, #3, Mar. 1997.
            ……….
            …INCA, which was supposedly in mortal combat with the Garrison investigation, has at least 4 of its associates among the leaders of Truth and Consequences, the money bag outfit for the Garrison investigation…..

          • …INCA, which was supposedly in mortal combat with the Garrison investigation, has at least 4 of its associates among the leaders of Truth and Consequences, the money bag outfit for the Garrison investigation…..

            Which proves what? That some anti-Communists who supported INCA also gave money to Garrison.

            You are aware, I assume, that most business corporations give money to both Republican and Democratic candidates.

            That’s known as “hedging you bets.” Or perhaps, “seeking favor wherever you can find it.”

            Are you claiming these “associates” were CIA stooges?

          • Tom S. says:

            That’s known as “hedging you bets.” Or perhaps, “seeking favor wherever you can find it.”

            Are you claiming these “associates” were CIA stooges?

            Dr. McAdams, do you deny that from the outset, funds raised and provided by the T&C Committee made Garrison’s investigation possible, protecting it from the
            political backlash over funds expended, a condition later hampering the HSCA, and sustained the ongoing investigation?

            You describe the funding as “hedging their bets,” as is done in reaction to political campaigns. You are attempting to minimize the financial influence of the T&C Committee by making a poor comparison. Political campaigns have alternative donors, depending on candidate performance. Can you describe the alternative to the T&C Committee funding of Garrison’s investigation?

            I am fascinated because you claim you are on no side other than that which the evidence supports, yet you stubbornly react to this particular controversy similarly to anyone else who “knows what they know,” what they are already inclined to embrace.

            You reflexively dismiss what doesn’t fit. Why not attempt to work it in, before dismissing or ignoring it…. the plainly observable evidence that Garrison
            misled Sklar, Stone, and Mellen?

          • You are attempting to minimize the financial influence of the T&C Committee by making a poor comparison.

            OK, so you think the people who donated to Truth or Consequences were CIA stooges, financing a Garrison “investigation” that targeted the CIA.

          • Dr. McAdams, do you deny that from the outset, funds raised and provided by the T&C Committee made Garrison’s investigation possible, protecting it from the political backlash over funds expended, a condition later hampering the HSCA, and sustained the ongoing investigation?

            So you think the Garrison investigation was itself a CIA operation?

  2. LBJ: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

    Hoover: No, that’s one angle that’s very confusing, for this reason-we have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswald’s name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man’s voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there.[1]

    Tapes of Oswald calling the Soviets not matching his voice? But hasn’t the CIA declared since the beginning that these tapes were routinely recycled prior to the assassination, leaving only transcripts as evidence on November 22, 1963? When the above LBJ-Hoover conversation was first revealed a few years ago, many assumed that Hoover was being typically loose with his facts. But last November, Newman presented a good deal of evidence which corroborates Hoover’s astounding statement that the taped calls did indeed survive the assassination and were listened to by FBI agents. Some of this comes from the Lopez Report, the long-suppressed House Select Committee on Assassinations staff report on Oswald’s trip to Mexico City. More still comes from newly released FBI materials, some only available for the first time last year. The Lopez Report excerpted a memorandum from FBI’s Belmont to Tolson on 11/23/63, which states:

    …..Inasmuch as the Dallas Agents who listened to the tape of the conversation allegedly of Oswald from the Cuban Embassy to the Russian Embassy in Mexico and examined the photographs of the visitor to the Embassy in Mexico and were of the opinion that neither the tape nor the photograph pertained to Oswald,…..[2]

    Also in the Lopez Report is the following excerpt of a memo from Hoover to Secret Service Chief Rowley on 11/23:

    …..The Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October 1, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual indentified himself as Lee Oswald, who contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special Agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to his voice. These Special Agents are of the opinion that the above-referred-to-individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald…..[3]

    http://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/FourteenMinuteGap/FourteenMinuteGap.htm#_ftn18

    \\][//

    • Tom S. says:

      This “Comment of the week,” is an experiment. Doubt is creeping in that it is even possible for a facts influenced discussion to develop, a discussion in which side driven sentiment is overwhelmed by what no participant in the discussion particularly relishes, what the facts actually are telling us if we choose to consider them.

      Willy, you prefer to present/discuss the identical points already under discussion, here –
      http://jfkfacts.org/rob-tannenbaums-spellbinding-presentation-hscas-thwarted-jfk-investigation/
      Rob Tannenbaum’s ‘spellbinding’ presentation on the HSCA’s thwarted JFK investigation

      Why?

      One thing I find curious is there was no journalistic fact checking in the newspapers that published this in June, 1967.:

      …It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency…

    • You are just citing stuff that has been posted here over and over.

      And you are ignoring the best evidence on the issue, which is two documents produced before any of the Mexico City materials made it to Dallas.

      http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/fbi/105-3702/124-10230-10430/html/124-10230-10430_0002a.htm

      http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/Shanklin112263.pdf

      Newman is just being a hack, and making claims debunked since the HSCA:

      Quoting the Report:

      In response to a committee inquiry, the FBI reported that no tape recording of Oswald’s voice was in fact ever received. The Bureau explained that its Dallas office only received the report of a conversation to which Oswald had been a party. This explanation was independently confirmed by the committee. A review of relevant FBI cable traffic established that at 7:23 p.m. (CST) on November 23, 1963, Dallas Special Agent-in-Charge Shanklin advised Director Hoover that only a report of this conversation was available, not an actual tape recording. On November 25, the Dallas office again apprised the Director that “[t]here appears to be some confusion in that no tapes were taken to Dallas * * * [O]nly typewritten [reports were] supplied * * *.”

      Shanklin stated in a committee interview that no recording was ever received by FBI officials in Dallas. Moreover, former FBI Special Agents James Hosty, John W. Fain, Burnett Tom Carter, and Arnold J. Brown, each of whom had conversed with Oswald at one time, informed the committee they had never listened to a recording of Oswald’s voice.

      • Ronnie Wayne says:

        “this stuff has been posted here over and over.” You ought to know. You’ve spent more time here since the site was started than you have on your own between graduate assistants and those funded by the koch’s.
        I guess it’s to be expected of Operation Mockingbird as you go way back beyond the site 20 years plus total defending the Warren Omission since the subject began rising to prominence on the internet in the mid 90’s.

        One more time Johnny.

        http://www.prouty.org/mcadams/

        • Don’t you know it’s obvious that you resort to ad hominem attacks when you get your ass kicked on evidence?

          It’s happened over and over on this board.

          • Ronnie Wayne says:

            You don’t deny being a Mockingbird?

          • You don’t deny being a Mockingbird?

            You don’t deny turning to insults because you have gotten your ass kicked on the evidence?

          • David Hazan says:

            Could we not rephrase professor’s comment and say :

            Don’t you know it’s obvious that one calls ‘ad hominem’ when their ass is being kicked on evidence?

            And, what might one call the professor’s rebuttal “Garrison was a crackpot”? Evidence?

      • “Newman is just being a hack, and making claims debunked since the HSCA”~McAdams

        Bunk “professor” Newman is presenting brand new material. You would know that if you would actually read it.
        \\][//

        • The only material saw was various memos and phone conversations where somebody in the FBI said that tapes had made it to Dallas.

          But all of these accounts came directly or indirectly from Alan Belmont.

          • Bob Prudhomme says:

            Good Lord, John, you’re not suggesting there was a conspiracy taking place, are you?

  3. Tom S. says:

    If you wish to discuss the Mexico City tapes, please comment in the thread linked below, (including replying to off-topic comments displayed above):
    http://jfkfacts.org/rob-tannenbaums-spellbinding-presentation-hscas-thwarted-jfk-investigation/#comment-883201

    I quoted Gerry Simone’s entire comment in this week’s “Comment of the week,” article, but I intended the discussion here to be on the question of whether Gerry’s or Dr. McAdams’s opinions of Jim Garrison’s investigation align with the facts, or if a discussion of that question is even practical, or appreciated.

    • John Rowell says:

      I think you have your answer.

      • Tom S. says:

        I think you have your answer.

        Crickets! (Few commentors submit original research or opinions, or seem interested in questioning or discussing the scant original research that is submitted. Orthodoxy reigns, dampens, stifles, insults are vigorously traded. How many ways are there to disagree about CE399? I guess we eventually will find out how many ways there are.)

        http://joanmellen.com/wordpress/speeches/the-kennedy-assassination-and-the-current-political-moment/

        The Kennedy Assassination and the Current Political Moment
        Talk at the 92nd Street Y,
        JANUARY 28, 2007
        THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION AND THE CURRENT POLITICAL MOMENT

        by Joan Mellen

        …..That Oswald was an employee of the CIA I demonstrate in my book, a fact recently re-confirmed by a historian named Michael Kurtz. Professor Kurtz reports on an interview he did in 1981 with Hunter Leake, second in command at the New Orleans field office. Leake admitted that CIA used Oswald as a courier and that Oswald came to New Orleans in April 1963 because the CIA office there intended to use him for certain operations. Leake either was disaffected from the Agency, or, perhaps, was just an honest man. He admitted that he personally paid Oswald various sums of cash for his services. Oswald was on the CIA payroll, Leake knew. He himself paid Oswald’s CIA salary.

        Leake also explained in this telephone interview with Professor Kurtz why there was no documentation on Oswald’s employment with CIA in New Orleans. After President Kennedy’s assassination, he drove the files personally to Langley, Virginia. They were so voluminous that he had to rent a trailer to transport them. Shouldn’t revelations from so credible a source have made the newspapers or CNN? I don’t know why Hunter Leake, who figures prominently in “A Farewell to Justice,” talked to Professor Kurtz, but I discovered that the original Hunter Leake family estate, in 1927, was sold to purchase Hammond Junior College, which became Southeastern Louisiana University – where Professor Kurtz teaches….

        • Tom S. says:

          Pat Speer :

          http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-19c-lost-in-the-jungle-with-kurtz
          Other Questionable Interviews

          Both Leake and Gaudet, for that matter, were supposedly interviewed in the 1980’s, well before Kurtz’s 1993 update of Crime of the Century.

          And yet they were not even mentioned in the book.

          An overview of the information purportedly gained from Leake, for that matter, proves most illuminating.

          Leake was purportedly interviewed over the telephone on 3-15-81. No other interview is listed. And yet, on page 158 of the JFK Assassination Debates Kurtz relates that “In several interviews…Leake stated that Oswald came to New Orleans in April 1963 because the CIA office there intended to use him for certain operations. His job at the Reilly Coffee Company merely served as a front for his actual role.” And that is just the beginning. On page 162, Kurtz relates that “Leake stated that on the day of the assassination, he was ordered to collect all of the CIA’s files on Oswald from the New Orleans office and transport them to the agency’s headquarters in Langley, Virginia…They proved so voluminous that Leake had to rent a trailer to transport them to Langley…Leake later learned that many of these files were, in the term made infamous by John Ehrlichman during the Watergate crisis, ‘deep-sixed.'” And that’s not all. On page 178, Kurtz further reveals that “Leake told me that on one of his several visits to that city (New Orleans), Robert Kennedy ordered them (the CIA) to focus on ‘getting rid of Castro’ and specifically declared that he did not care how that objective was accomplished.” It goes on. On pages 184-185, Kurtz reveals that Hunter Leake told him that Guy Banister worked for the CIA, and that he sometimes reported to…Hunter Leake.

          And that is just a sample of the things Leake purportedly told Kurtz, but no one else….. But wait, there’s more. On page 213, Kurtz puts the usual suspects in Kennedy’s killing in the same room…in New Orleans, naturally. He relates that “Hunter Leake recalled (mafia-fixer-heavily-involved-in-the-CIA’s-assassination-plots-on-Castro Johnny) Roselli meeting with Guy Banister and David Ferrie in Banister’s office on Camp Street.”

          It’s perfect. A little too perfect. From what can be gathered, Hunter Leake was unknown to JFK assassination researchers until the late 1990’s, when documents and testimony from the 1960’s and 1970’s were released that indicated he’d been a member of the CIA’s Domestic Contact Service in New Orleans, and had frequent contacts with the man Jim Garrison ultimately brought charges against, Clay Shaw. With the release of The JFK Assassination Debates in 2006, Kurtz stepped up and said he’d interviewed Leake in 1981, and that Leake had told him just about everything. Wherever there is confusion in the record–Did Oswald work for the CIA? Did Robert Kennedy order Castro’s assassination? Was there any connection between the CIA’s assassination attempts on Castro and the activities of Banister and Ferrie in New Orleans?–Leake pops up in Kurtz’s book to show us the way.

          • Tom S. says:

            A Record from Mary’s Database – Mary Ferrell Foundation
            https://maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=2345
            See: Wm. P. Burke, Jr; Hunter C. Leake, III; Stephen B. Lemann (resident CIA Chief in New Orleans – with Law Firm: Monroe & Lemann). See Lloyd A. Ray.

            It turns out the wrong Leake is described, it is actually Leake II, not III.:

            The great grandfather.:
            Judge William Walter Leake –

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walter_Leake
            William Walter Leake (April 22, 1833 – January 20, 1912) was an officer in the Confederate States Army in the American Civil War. He was also an attorney, a member of the Louisiana State Senate, a circuit court judge, a bank president, and a newspaper publisher.
            ‎Early life and education · ‎Civil War · ‎Post-war career · ‎”The day the war stopped”
            Judge William Walter Leake (1833 – 1912) – Find A Grave Memorial
            http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=10560341
            Mar 5, 2005 – Leake, William W.,Capt. Co. C, 1st La. Cavalry Enlisted: Sept. 12, 1861, Baton Rouge, La. Appears on report dated Bowling, Ky., Nov. 27, 1861. …..

            https://books.google.com/books?id=VZ9YAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA471&ots=5dqFHHPwM3&dq=dr%20william%20walter%20leake&pg=PA471#v=onepage&q&f=true

            Date: Monday, July 13, 1936 Paper: Times-Picayune

            Of interest in Leake II’s 1936 wedding announcement is that his father was Dr. William Walter Leake, son of the Hunter C. Leake described above. William P Hagerty was best man, and his cousin Katie Tack, daughter of his father William’s sister, Mary Ellis Leake Tack, as well as his future CIA “boss” Lloyd Ray, were attendants in Hunter Leake II’s wedding.

            http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/lafourche/obits/1993/f9305.txt
            HUNTER LEAKE – http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=88167841
            ….in Fort Meyers, Fla., for Hunter C. Leake II, 82, a native of Thibodaux
            and resident of Fort Meyers, who died Wednesday, May 5.

            He was the husband of Eleanor Shands Leaks; father of Dr. Hunter C. Leake III of
            Fort Meyers, Robert S. Leake of Baton Rouge and James Leake of San Francisco,
            Calif.; brother of W.W. Leake Jr. of Ford du Lac, Wisc. He is also survived by
            four grandchildren.

            He was preceded in death by his parents, Dr. W.W. Leake and Virginia du Neveu.

            https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/22643023/
            Monday, March 25, 1968 Mrs. Leake Of de Neveu Expires At 83 Mrs. William W. Leake Sr., 83, resident at Lake de Neveu since 1951, and granddaughter of the founder of the lake community, died…. The former Virginia Grace de Neveu was born Dec. 4, 1884, on the present farm on Lake de Neveu, the daughter of Francois J. and Grace King de Neveu. Mrs. Leake was the granddaughter of Gustave de Neveu who was born in Savigny, France, in 1811. ….Mr. de Neveu was the first person to become a naturalized citizen in Fond du Lac County. She was married to Dr. William W. Leake Sr., on Nov. 3, 1909, in Chicago. Following their marriage they lived in New Orleans, La., and returned to Chicago in 1941, where Dr. Leake was named chief surgeon of the Illinois Central Railroad and Hospital Department. Following his retirement in 1951, they moved to their present home at Lake de Neveu. Dr. Leake died Aug. 26, 1952….Survivors include two sons, Hunter Leake, New Orleans, and William W. Leake Jr., Lake de Neveu;…

            Next up, Leake II’s first cousins, the Tacks….

          • Tom S. says:

            http://obits.nola.com/obituaries/nola/obituary.aspx?pid=146314918
            Mary Ellis Tack Carrère – 1917 – 2010
            Mary Ellis later moved with her family to Tulsa, Oklahoma where her father Theodore E. Tack II ran the Oklahoma exploration arm of the business. Her paternal grandmother was Mary Agnes Cosgrave of New York. Her mother Mary Ellis Leake of New Orleans was the daughter of Hunter Collins Leake, chief counsel for Standard Oil and Illinois Central, prominent & beloved in the community, a former King of Carnival, Rex 1910; and Katherine Donelson Ellis of Magnolia Plantation. …Mrs. Carrère as a child spent summers with her sister Katie D. in Hammond, Louisiana at a family plantation, now the University of Southeastern Louisiana; at her grandparents’ Garden District home; and the family farm on Lake DeNeveu near Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. She attended Monte Cassino preparatory school in Tulsa, the University of Oklahoma and Newcomb College where she was a member of the Pi Beta Phi sorority graduating in 1939. In 1941-42, she resided in Manhattan, where her husband was an officer with naval intelligence before shipping off to war, and to be near her Aunt Sally, Sarah Tack Ryan, wife of Allen Aloysius Ryan, son of Thomas Fortune Ryan. Her godfather and uncle was Augustus Vincent Tack (of New York City & Deerfield, Massachusetts), the renowned American landscape and portrait painter, whose work hangs in many museums including the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, the Phillips Gallery and the National Portrait Gallery in Washington D.C., the Fogg Museum at Harvard, Cleveland Museum of Art and the Memorial Hall Museum of Historic Deerfield in Massachusetts, where Mrs. Carrère donated her Tack art collection, family objets and correspondence. Girl at Door (1901) is on permanent exhibition hanging with pride of place at the entrance to the museum. She is a member of the society of Descendants of Deerfield. Her Aunt Violet was daughter of American figurative painter George Fuller. Married for 45 years to the late Ernest Auguste Carrère III of New Orleans, they were parents of seven children. She is survived by three sons: Theo Carrère (of Buenos Aires, Argentina), Robert Carrère (of San Francisco, California), and Ernest Carrère IV (of Fresno, California); three daughters Elizabeth Carrère (of Cincinnati, Ohio), Sallie Miller (of Naples, Florida) and Mary Ellis Hasseltine (of Metairie, Louisiana); a sister Sue Tillman formerly of Gulfport, Mississippi and brother Reverend Theodore E. Tack, OSA of Tulsa, Oklahoma. A fourth son, Edward Donelson Carrère predeceased her, as well as her elder sister Katherine Donelson Smith of New Orleans. Mrs. Carrère served as the First Lady of the Navy League of the United States in the 1970s travelling worldwide with her husband, who served as national president, and was a senior partner in the law firm Jones, Walker, Waechter, Poitevent, Carrère & Denegre and member of the Metropolitan Club of New York City. Mrs. Carrère, known by many as Sis, was active in charitable organizations, as well as a supporter of the Presbytère donating her mother’s parure as queen of Proteus 1910 to the Louisiana State Museum’s Carnival collection; …Living most of her adult life in New Orleans, Mrs. Carrère at age 87 evacuated the city prior to hurricane Katrina. As of late 2007 she spent time in Argentina, and from 2008 until her death made Buenos Aires her home.

          • Tom S. says:

            Hunter C Leake’s brother, William was a groomsman of groom Edward A. Carrere in the wedding of the Leake brothers’ cousin, Mary Ellen Tack. An internet search with the terms, PETER DALE SCOTT Ernest Carrere Empire Trust, yields some interesting, but sparse search results. One of the other groomsmen is a Strauss, a family linked closely to the JFK assassination in Greg Parker’s recent book.

            Sunday, April 13, 1941 Paper: Times-Picayune

            Half brother of Tack sisters became world leader of Augustinian Order.:
            http://midwestaugustinians.org/theodore-e-ted-tack-osa/

            The point of presenting the details in the last few comments is that the NOLA domestic office of CIA was tight knit, the chief Ray and assistant, Leake, if that was the actual command order, had a history dating back to the early 1930’s. Leake’s best man, William P Hagerty, was prosecuted by Jim Garrison’s office on official corruption charges after his 1964 arrest. He served three years imprisonment and died a few months after his release in late 1973.

            Leake was conceivably connected through his first cousin Tack sisters to the Ryans and other Standard Oil fortune heirs, and to the Empire Trust through Carrere. There are more NOLA secret society connections in Leake’s family, and to a lesser extent in Lloyd Ray’s, than seems inconsequential or easily dismissed.

            Another agent in the NOLA office, Dorothy Brandao, when she was still Mrs. John Miceli, happened to spend three days in 1946 on a ship en route to New Orleans from Honduras. (Image link – https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vl2-QVs9m7s/V3F2JeipjqI/AAAAAAAAEqo/KoY-CBczdMIl5itkstdPUw7ji-dP2n0HwCCo/s912/BrandaoCate1946.jpg )
            The only other passenger on that ship was Charles Edward Cate, a civil engineer residing in Guatemala in 1952, per his mother’s obit. Thirty years before, Cate was the superintendent of his grandfather, Charles Emery Cate’s Hammond, LA estate. He attended school with Dr. William W Leake, father of the Leake brothers.

            http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/tangipahoa/obits/obitcoll/vindic11.txt
            10 Apr 1942; p. 5, col. 4: Mrs. Courtney Harvie Palfrey Cate,
            80, widow of Captain Thomas W. Cate, passed away in her Hammond
            home Wednesday morning following a long illness. Funeral
            services were Thursday with interment in Grace Memorial cemetery.
            Survivors include a son, Charles Edward Cate, a civil engineer
            living in Guatemala
            , and one brother, William Palfrey of Hammond.

            http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=65771251
            Charles Edward Cate b. Jun. 28, 1884

            Grandfather and Hammond, LA history, locale of Hunter Leake estate.:

            Charles Emery Cate –
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Emery_Cate

            Charles Emery Cate (1831–1916) was the 19th-century developer of Hammond’s Crossing, which became Hammond, Louisiana, USA. Originally from New …
            Charles Emery Cate – Inside Northside magazine
            http://www.insidenorthside.com/charles-emery-cate/ › November-December 2012
            Nov 4, 2012 – Charles Emery Cate was not a stranger to education, attending nearby public and private schools as well as a literary institute and an academy.
            Charles Emery Cate (1831 – 1916) – Find A Grave Memorial

            http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=55660317
            Jul 30, 2010 – Birth: Jan. 16, 1831. New Hampshire, USA. Death: Oct. 8, 1916. Hammond Tangipahoa Parish Louisiana, USA. CATE, Charles Emery …

          • concise

            [adjective]

            giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive.
            “a concise account of the country’s history”
            synonyms:succinct, pithy, incisive, brief, short and to the point, short and sweet
            . . . .
            \\][//

          • Tom S. says:

            short and sweet

            Yeah Willy, are your examples of “short and sweet,” the presentations of your heroes, Garrison or Prouty, or perhaps Stone’s three hours long infotainment film? Or does your criticism only apply to details you have no informative response or rebuttal to?

            http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/2013/11/the_jfk_legacy_oliver_stones_c.html
            …as Stone keeps the story racing along for the film’s three-hour-plus …

            You’re persistently pushing back, Willy, but as you commented, you’ve “proved” the case! I am learning quite a lot from your comments, Willy.

            http://jfkfacts.org/dallas-police-chieff-jesse-curry-jfk-assassination-file/#comment-883831
            Willy Whitten – 2016/06/25 at 8:31 pm
            ……….
            There was no “bullet” to the throat, it was a dissolving flechette, as I so aptly proved previously.
            \\][//

            I expect you will reply more than once on your dissolving “proof”, attempting to further obscure the details in this thread, as you did by trying to present a second discussion here earlier on the Mexico City tapes.

          • “I expect you will reply more than once on your dissolving “proof”, attempting to further obscure the details in this thread, as you did by trying to present a second discussion here earlier on the Mexico City tapes.”~Tom

            No, my only reply is this:

            Where are you going with all of this?

            And when do you think you might arrive there?

            \\][//

          • Bill Clarke says:

            Tom S.
            June 27, 2016 at 3:27 pm

            “short and sweet”

            “Yeah Willy, are your examples of “short and sweet,” the presentations of your heroes, Garrison or Prouty, or perhaps Stone’s three hours long infotainment film?”

            “Or does your criticism only apply to details you have no informative response or rebuttal to?”

            I don’t believe Willy has such a detail. He always knows everything there is to know about the details and he can, and usually does, rebut all he doesn’t agree with. This is particularly funny when you read his junk on Vietnam War under JFK.

          • Randy Lombard says:

            I had just about given up on this site, but must confess, I do find the Leakes and Kurtz information thought provoking and warranting further study on my part. Thanks for the links.

        • Bill Pierce says:

          Tom S:
          As we read your posts on this subject – “Jim Garrison’s Conclusions” – what are we supposed to be considering? (a) that all of this is an ultra elaborate CIA limited hangout? (b) that people lie and embellish for various reasons? (c) that researchers perpetuate mistakes when they cite sources of questionable veracity?

          • Tom S. says:

            what are we supposed to be considering? (a) that all of this is an ultra elaborate CIA limited hangout?

            Bill, that is what the facts are telling me, at least. Cecil Shilstone, cofounder of the private group that funded the Garrison investigation, was as close to the closest friends of CIA’s Hunter C. Leake, as Leake was!
            http://jfk.pics/hunterleake.html

            It was a campaign in vogue at the time, the nip it in the bud stage.:

            The film:
            June, 1967 A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report

            …and the book:

            https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000579387
            Should we now believe the Warren report? Pref. by Walter Cronkite.
            Main Author: White, Stephen, 1915-
            Language(s): English
            Published: New York, Macmillan [1968]
            Subjects: Kennedy, John F. > (John Fitzgerald), > 1917-1963 > Assassination.
            United States. > Warren Commission. > Report of the President’s Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy.
            Note: Transcripts of the 4 one-hour television broadcasts collectively called “A CBS news inquiry: the Warren report” presented on the CBS network in June 1967: p. 209-303.
            Physical Description: x, 309 p. illus., ports. 24 cm.

            http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Lifton/BTS&TN.TXT
            BETWEEN THE SIGNAL AND THE NOISE
            Roger Bruce Feinman

            [Note: It should not escape the attention of serious
            students of the assassination that Macmillan, the company
            that brought us “Best Evidence” also published Stephen
            White’s equally glib apologia for CBS News and the Warren
            Report. In many subtle ways, Mr. White’s denigration of the
            critics of the Warren Commission ….

          • “what are we supposed to be considering? (a) that all of this is an ultra elaborate CIA limited hangout?”~Bill Pierce

            Tom replies:
            “Bill, that is what the facts are telling me, at least. Cecil Shilstone, cofounder of the private group that funded the Garrison investigation, was as close to the closest friends of CIA’s Hunter C. Leake, as Leake was!
            http://jfk.pics/hunterleake.html

            It was a campaign in vogue at the time, the nip it in the bud stage.:”

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Well then alright…

            Now we DO have a succinct summation of where Mr Scully is going. THAT is all I wanted to read.

            Thank you Tom!
            \\][//

          • Tom S. says:

            All that matters is what Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, “Mr. X”, William Davy, Joan Mellen, and Jim DiEugenio told us? Really?

            Follow the money and the ideology. Willy believes the political establishment in New Orleans funded a sincere, transparent investigation by sincere transparent Jim Garrison.
            I have to go with the facts and the facts contradict such belief.

            January 12, 1964 :


            October 22, 1965 :

            January 25, 1971, Page 1 : http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Shaw%20Clay%20Perjury%20Trial%203-4-69/Item%2071.pdf

            January 25, 1971, Page 2 : http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Shaw%20Clay%20Perjury%20Trial%203-4-69/Item%2071.pdf

            Willard Everett Robertson’s father-in-law in 1963.:

            Both the obituaries of CIA officers Burke and Ray managed to include the detail of their membership in the New Orleans country club long managed
            by Ernest Gossom.:

            Obit William Burke: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4DhEMjD39kc/V3l3HvEs7AI/AAAAAAAAEzk/PFA3h1dOD14E8YAp-2cBIpMra_Zas4APQCCo/s512/WilliamPburkeObit07Dec1980.jpg
            Obit Lloyd A. Ray : https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-irsiX763IJY/V3l3NF9xZpI/AAAAAAAAEzo/Hj0l1vA0NMY6Udus7E2z7CrWv9fbz_vAwCCo/s512/LloydRayObit14April1982.jpg

            http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/11/01/Obituaries/3687436510800/
            Nov. 1, 1983
            ROGERS, Ark. — Willard E. Robertson, 75, a four-state automobile distributor who died this past weekend in a New Orleans hospital, was buried Monday on his Beaver Lake estate.

            Robertson served on the Republican Presidential Advisory Board in 1981 and on a Republican presidential task force in 1982.

            Survivors include his wife, Marlin Head Robertson; three sons, Sen. Phillip S. Robertson of New Haven, Conn., Willard E. Robertson Jr. and James C. Robertson, and a daughter, Patricia Miller of New Haven, Conn.

            The 1940 US Census indicates Willard was a $35 per week restaurant manager who had married Sally Moss of New York. In 1964 he was appointed by Gov. McKeithen as DMV commissioner of Louisiana.

            http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/803/136/381311/
            ………
            When Willard E. Robertson, Sr. died at Ochsner Foundation Hospital in October, 1983, he left an estate worth approximately $30 million, a will leaving the bulk of his assets to his wife and the children of his third marriage, and modest bequests to two children of his first marriage. The children of the first marriage contend that they are entitled to a larger portion of their father’s estate than is granted them under his will because he died a domiciliary of Louisiana subject to that state’s forced heirship laws…..

            http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=114647472
            Death: 1983 New Orleans Orleans Parish Louisiana, USA
            Burial: Conway Village Cemetery Conway Carroll County New Hampshire, USA

          • Tom S. says:

            Both the obituaries of CIA officers Burke and Ray managed to include the detail of their membership in the New Orleans country club long managed
            by Ernest Gossom.:

            Obit William Burke: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4DhEMjD39kc/V3l3HvEs7AI/AAAAAAAAEzk/PFA3h1dOD14E8YAp-2cBIpMra_Zas4APQCCo/s512/WilliamPburkeObit07Dec1980.jpg
            Obit Lloyd A. Ray : https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-irsiX763IJY/V3l3NF9xZpI/AAAAAAAAEzo/Hj0l1vA0NMY6Udus7E2z7CrWv9fbz_vAwCCo/s512/LloydRayObit14April1982.jpg

            http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20298&p=275914
            Thomas H. Purvis – Posted 19 July 2013
            …….
            The “power structure” within New Orleans lies not with those who are currently in what is some temporary political position.

            It lies with those who possess the capability to place these persons in the various political positions…

          • Tom S. says:

            Earlier today, I was about to point out that William Burke, Lloyd Ray, and Hunter Leake all made a choice of best man in their wedding ceremonies of batchelor gentlemen, and that Clay Shaw happened to be one, as well. Ray and Leake chose the same person, Hagerty, Burke chose
            Spencer. But then I looked a bit further and found even more intriguing “coincidence”.:

            By “Tom S.” © 2016 :

            https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22phil+strong+is+off+on+a+two-year*%22+
            Princeton Alumni Weekly – Volume 37 – Page 607
            1936 – (April 16, 1937)
            Phil Strong is off on a two-year walking trip through Germany and Russia. If he doesn’t write a book about Russia, it will certainly be news….

            https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-OSS/USMC-OSS-8.html
            ….In October 1943, it was proposed that OSS create a unit of psychologist and psychiatrists to evaluate the mental and emotional fitness of incoming personnel…..
            ….. In August 1940, Strong was promoted to Major and ordered to active duty as Assistant to the Director of the marine Corps Reserve. By December he had a new job: Marine Corps Representative to the Strategic Information Section of the Navy’s Foreign Intelligence Branch.9

            –109–

            It was in this job that Major Strong caught the eye of William J. Donovan…..

            https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000621349.pdf
            Approved for release 09/23/2009

            ………..

            https://books.google.com/books?id=sRFbAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA27&dq=hill+school+brainard+roomed+phil+strong&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB6LiE4PjNAhUIcj4KHTgkBawQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=hill%20school%20brainard%20roomed%20phil%20strong&f=true

            http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Security-CIA-II/CIA%20II%20064.pdf

          • So…Tom’s theory is indeed Biblical in scope. So far we seem to merely have had a preview of Genesis, sans the ‘Creation’ event.

            There is the proposition of INTENT.

            Prove God first, THEN assert His intent.

            \\][//

          • Tom S. says:

            Willy, a theory is a thing that has not yet been proven. I am wondering now whether Clay Shaw was actually billed by his
            defense attorney, Dymond.

            No melted away, untraceable flechette assertion in these presentations.:

            July 3, 1936:

            Mac W. Burke and Michael Whittington Burke, were one and the same. In your belief system, Willy, Jim Garrison as presented by Mellen, Sklar with Stone, and DiEugenio, would have had to have been a clueless moron considering the evidence presented in this discussion thread. The same could be said for a sincere, silent Clay Shaw. Everyone played their part well enough to end any eagerness for government led reinvestigation, anytime soon. LBJ and Nixon both enjoyed a pass….

          • Tom S. says:

            When Lloyd A. Ray married on 30 July, 1938 to Louella Everett, of course Ray chose, just as Hunter C. Leake II and Phelan H. Hunter had chosen earlier, William P. Hagerty as best man in Ray’s wedding.

            Lloyd A. Ray background, begins in lower left column.:

            October 22, 1968:

            The close network of friends supports the idea that the Nola CIA office was regularly communicating with, through Irvin Dymond, Clay Shaw and his defense team. IOW, Ray and Leake II knew that David Baldwin had informed Shaw that he was godfather and first cousin of Jim Garrisons wife, Lee Ziegler Garrison.

            When everyone except the public and JFK assassination researchers hold close for decades the same sensitive information, it is a sign of cooperation in prearranged deception, an appearance of opposition where there is in fact, little or none.

          • Let me point out to the forum here that the ‘dissolving fletchette’ is NOT an assertion from Prouty nor Garrison, but in fact comes from testimony before the Church Committee from from ex-CIA directors William Colby and Richard Helms and weapon developer Charles Senseney.

            Here is their testimony before the Church Committee on September 16 to 18, 1975, as published in Volume One (1976) of that Committee’s final report, under the title, “Unauthorized Storage of Toxic Agents.”

            http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/TUM.html

            NOTE: The link above is NOT Fletcher Prouty’s website.It does contain links to Prouty’s works and videos.
            \\][//

          • Photon says:

            Willy, exactly who stated that there was a disappearing flechette?
            And where is the actual description or diagram of the umbrella launcher- not the fantasy of the author of this piece of tripe but a real piece of evidence- like the Bulgarian weapon used in London which required contact with the dissident victim.
            Having stated that, what would have been the point of trying to paralyze a victim when the same action could have introduced a fatal poison, obviating the need for the insanely complex assassination scenario you favor-when in the history of sniping we have never seen an episode of a sniper requiring his target to be paralyzed? If the conspiracy was so overwhelming and complex, why didn’t they know that JFK wore a back brace that made him relatively immobile-and making any attempt to “paralyze” him completely pointless-as demonstrated by his behavior after being hit in the back? If he was paralyzed, why did his arms rise up?

          • Here is their testimony before the Church Committee on September 16 to 18, 1975, as published in Volume One (1976) of that Committee’s final report, under the title, “Unauthorized Storage of Toxic Agents.”

            http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/TUM.html

            So it seems that the Richard Sprague of the HSCA took the flechette firing umbrella seriously.

            (Tom S. note: Willy Whitten’s reply, in a thread devoted to the flechette weapon topic.: http://jfkfacts.org/22740-2/#comment-884267 )

    • “I quoted Gerry Simone’s entire comment in this week’s “Comment of the week,” article, but I intended the discussion here to be on the question of whether Gerry’s or Dr. McAdams’s opinions of Jim Garrison’s investigation align with the facts, or if a discussion of that question is even practical, or appreciated.”~Tom S.

      I for one do not like rule by fiat. Whether by government or moderation. Some may be unwilling to speak up about this, but I thing your riding your hobbyhorse too high in the saddle.
      \\][//

  4. DB says:

    Tom csn you summarize what your research has led you to believe regarding Garrison motives and possible sponsors. Your research skills are very impressive IMO . On this site in my limited expuerences here it seems the most accurate statements are the ones where an individual is called out to contradict but does not do so, lol.

    Btw IMO , it’s clear from purely an evidence standpoint LHO was impersonated in Mexico City. We have confirmation from 2+ documents ( several investigators ) and I don’t see IMO how such statements can be misunderstood . I understand several members on here will disagree . This was the most important ( and dangerous ) part of the assassination IMO . Did LHO lead back to Cuba / Russia or not ? No chance such a serious information is misunderstood at the President and FBI director level ( at lower levels maybe but not with the nuclear code man ). Like someone else said 5th floor vs 6th floor ok , but zero chance hard and direct evidence implicating a WWIII possibility is overlooked so routinely , zero chance on this matter.

  5. “When everyone except the public and JFK assassination researchers hold close for decades the same sensitive information, it is a sign of cooperation in prearranged deception, an appearance of opposition where there is in fact, little or none.” ~Tom S.

    Is the above a statement of fact? Or is it a hypothetical stated as if it were fact?

    I am just asking, because I am not sure that this “prearranged deception” is proven objectively.
    \\][//

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