Ex-flame says Jack Ruby ‘had no choice’ but to kill Oswald

The lovely “Gail Raven,” an exotic dancer in the southwestern United States in the 1960s, became friends with Jack Ruby, the Dallas nightclub owner who killed accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald.

Who says new JFK witnesses can’t be found?
After JFK Facts recounted Jack Ruby’s pursuit of an exotic dancer named Gail Raven in January 1963, I received a message from a woman who identified herself as Raven’s daughter. She told me that her mother was still alive, and she confirmed that her mother and Jack Ruby were close. I asked her if her mother would share her memories of the man who killed accused assassin Lee H. Oswald. She said yes.
In 1963 Gail Raven was the stage name of a precociously mature 20-year-old woman who danced on the national nightclub circuit that included Ruby’s Carousel Club in Dallas. Ruby (born Jack Rubenstein) was a Chicago tough guy who took a shine to her, and they became friends.
Now close to 70 years old, Gail Raven is living in the southern United States. I have confirmed her real name but have agreed not to publish it here to protect her privacy.
What were Ruby’s politics?
Ruby never mentioned President Kennedy, Raven said. “He was not in love with the Kennedys and he did NOT like Robert Kennedy by no means,” she says.
This is not surprising, according to journalists and historians who have studied Ruby’s life. Phone records reviewed by JFK investigators showed that in 1962-63 Ruby made phone calls to no less than seven organized crime figures who had been prosecuted by Attorney General Bobby Kennedy’s Justice Department.
The Warren Commission did not consider this evidence relevant to Ruby’s motivation for silencing Oswald.
Why did Ruby kill Oswald? 
“He had no choice,” Raven said. When I asked her to explain why he “had no choice,” she replied only, “Jack had bosses, just like everyone else.”
Raven says she believes “he was instructed on what he needed to do, therefore he did it. And when the opportunity presented itself he went ahead and took it.”
Did Ruby kill Oswald to spare First Lady Jackie Kennedy the ordeal of a criminal trial?
“That was absolutely made up,” Raven said.

Ruby told that story to Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels 30 minutes after he executed Oswald. The conversation went like this, according to Sorrels:

And I said these two words, “Jack — why?”

He said, “When this thing happened” — referring to the assassination, that he was in a newspaper office placing an ad for his business. That when he heard about the assassination, he had canceled his ad and had closed his business, and he had not done any business for 3 days. That he had been grieving about this thing. That on the Friday night he had gone to the synagogue and had heard a eulogy on the President. That his sister had recently been operated on, and that she has been hysterical. That when he saw that Mrs. Kennedy was going to have to appear for the trial, he thought to himself, why should she have to go through this ordeal for this no-good so-and-so.

Ruby told this story to others; he later said his lawyer told him to say it. One college professor believes Ruby was sincere and the story is true. Not Gail Raven: “That was absolutely made up.”

Ruby and the Dallas police:

 ”He was very close with Dallas authorities, including the police and sheriff’s department. He helped them out and was friends with many,” she says. Raven thinks those friends may have informed Ruby about the transfer of Oswald and let him be there to witness it, but she stresses these are her thoughts only.

She doesn’t think that killing Oswald was Ruby’s original plan on November 24, 1963.
“He would have never done it with Sheba (his weenie dog) left in his car, knowing they would arrest him and Sheba would be alone,” she said. “Sheba was a child to Jack.”
After the shooting, Raven visited Ruby in the Dallas jail. She says Wally Weston, the house MC at the Carousel Club, took her to see him. During the visit Ruby kept repeating to her that she shouldn’t worry, and that everything would be OK after the first of the year.
Ruby and Cuba
He wanted to take her on a trip to the island to “gamble,” Raven says. She worked in Las Vegas but wasn’t allowed to gamble in the casino because she was only 20. She only worked in the floor shows. Raven remembers “a gambling friend” from Cuba who visited Ruby on the occasion of a big horse race between Candy Spots and Shadow Gay, though she admits she’s not certain she’s remembering the names right.
“The race didn’t turn out as everyone said it would and a lot of money was lost in Vegas,” Raven says.
Ruby as suitor
After Ruby ended a long relationship with a young woman, he continued to ask Raven to marry him. They were friends. He liked her because she didn’t drink or smoke. She told him she didn’t want to get married. He teased that they needed to get married for the “shock factor” and to surprise her friend Tammie True (stage name). But in Raven’s words they were “always just good friends.”
“Jack was NOT crazy as he has been portrayed,” Raven says. “He did have a temper and when he saw something going wrong he would take care of things himself instead of depending on his bouncer like others.”
“He was good to my grandmother when she visited,” she said. “He was good to everyone he was close to.”
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JFK Facts you might not know:

“4 CIA officers who made a lethal mistake about Lee Harvey Oswald,” (Sept. 30, 2013).

“Top 6 Washington insiders who suspected a JFK plot,”" (Oct. 2, 2013).

“Top 7 JFK files the CIA still keeps secret” (Oct. 11, 2013)

“21 JFK cops who heard a grassy knoll shot, “ (Sept. 24, 2013).

164 comments

  1. michael A. says:

    This is a wonderful find!I always thought that Jack was following orders.

  2. John Kirsch says:

    This is purely subjective on my part but I’ve always thought there was a certain familiarity in Ruby’s voice as shouted “Oswald” as he stepped forward with his gun. Just as I’ve always been struck by how calm Oswald appears in the news footage in the police station. And by what he didn’t say, namely, my name is Lee Oswald and I shot the president. If he really was a loser looking for a place in history, why didn’t he “claim the moment” and tell the world that he had shot the president.

    • leslie sharp says:

      Similarly, and subjective as well, I think that Ruby’s calling out served to warn those around Oswald. Intentional or not, that was the end effect as noted by Leavell’s reaction in particular.

      • S.R. "Dusty" Rohde says:

        Ruby was Oswalds betrayer, the very same person who helped to set him up and frame him, identifying Oswald to police.

        The man who killed Oswald, is the same man who killed JFK.

        • M. Gendron says:

          I don’t think Ruby was a specialist in shooting a rifle, neither was LHO. It was someone else.

          • Rick says:

            Lee H Oswald was a sharp shooter trained in the USMC

          • glenn says:

            LHO was a very good shot and was trained to kill a man 500 yards away with open sights. I might add that the Italian rifle he used may have been cheap in price; but its a accurate rifle with very good rifling. LHO had the skills to kill a man 500 yards away with open sights. With that being said-it does not mean there was not a conspiracy. LHO held two qualification badges in the USMC: Marksman and Sharpshooter. Before he was kick out of the Marines-he shot Marksman with a score of 202; 190 will pass you as a Marine marksman. He had the skills to kill the President.

          • Jack Joseph says:

            Best answer to this is that it wasn’t the Mannlicher Carcano that was used. It was a German Mauser 7.65, which was found on the 6th floor BEFORE the Mannlicher Carcano was found on a lower floor. See Phillip F Nelson’s LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination, p 324, 330 et seq

          • Gerry Simone says:

            I agree. Oswald declined in his ability from sharpshooter after two weeks intensive training with a semi-automatic rifle firing at still targets. Later, he declined to just above the marksman level. I believe his colleagues said he got ‘maggies drawers’ once.

            There’s no evidence that he trained before the assassination.

            Oswald’s rifle scope was off and his gun occasionally jammed.

            No experts duplicated the feat except one, Howard Donohue, but only after his third attempt shooting. There was not tree obstruction, and it wasn’t the same Carcano rifle. Also, they had practiced with the bolt action.

            To say that an average shooter like Oswald could do this on his first attempt under real life conditions is unbelievable.

            Michael T. Griffith has two excellent articles on this subject.

            http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/howlong.htm

            http://michaelgriffith1.tripod.com/poor.htm

          • Paul Turner says:

            M.Gendron, I’ll offer you one name as the “somebody else”(and by the way, I believe you’re right, it was)….Mac Wallace, firing from the TSBD 6th floor.

        • Mario says:

          Umm..Rick..thats not true. Oswald was NOT a Sharpshooter in the USMC. He qualified as a MarksMan which is the lowest rate. The next highest being Sharp Shooter, and the highest being Expert. Unless you have more infoon it..please share.

          • Barbara says:

            Thank you, Mario, for clarifying that point. That is very important. Mis-information such as Oswald’s being a “sharp shooter” only feeds those who want to keep the lie alive about Oswald being the lone gunman.

          • don says:

            mario, just a couple comments on the rating,the sequence is did not qualify, marksman, sharpshooter, expert. if you dont qualify, you have to go through the training course again. i qualified expert in 1966 in the USMC. it was far from easy, required paying very close attention and a lot of effort. the difference between marksman and expert is way more than it seems. further, one learns a pretty good amount of information about firearm quality. it seems highly unlikely that he would choose a junk rifle with a paper trail. also, the scope, in 1963 one could not attach a scope to a rifle and expect it to work. it required zeroing at a range so that the cross hairs actually aligned with the hole in the target. it is important to know that oswald was no dummy, he was a radar tech at the base in japan, that requires electronics school first and radar tech school after that. losers dont make it. i went through these schools before i went to viet nam. comments from marine and navy trainers of the time period could be helpful.

          • Ryan says:

            A blind soldier with turrets could hit a sillouette at 25-50 meters. I know I did it with my gas mask on and I was only a “sharp shooter” never quite a “expert”

          • Hugh says:

            At the risk of sounding Corpscentric… let me point this out, Marines do not qualify at targets closer then 100 meters in gas masks using turrets… on the rifle range they learn marksmanship and engage targets from 100-500 meters. By all accounts Oswald did not perform well at the range and was unable to qualify the first time through. Why is that important? Well the Marines I served with in STA platoon (Scout Snipers) were all amazing shots, no marksman or sharpshooters but high experts all… and any of them would tell you shooting at a high level requires constant practice… and a weapon and optics system that is zeroed for the range you are likely to engage your target.

            The question most trained snipers have is how did a guy who no one saw go to the rifle range pick up an ancient weapon with a scope that was shooting significantly high and to the left make a downhill shot at a target moving away from him and place two out of three shots in the kill zone in a period of time that is difficult to just cycle the bolt… from what I’ve read missing with the first shot… the best aimed most lined up one.

            and a second question for a lone shooter who is going to engage a target from the Depository… Why shoot into Daley Plaza with the target moving away from you (harder shot) when you could have shot from another window and engaged the limo moving towards you? (easier shot)

          • tolivr says:

            Oswald DID score as a marksman in the Marines. You need only review his Marine scorecard, showing a score of 212 (sharpshooter) in December of 1956. He later scord a 191 (marksman) in May, 1959. You can review that scorecard (Warren Commission Exhibit 239) at http://www.maryferrell.org by conducting a quick search. Oswald clearly had the requisite skill to make the shots that killed Kennedy–shots from a distance of 60 yards and 88 yards from the window of the Texas School Book Depository.

          • tolivr says:

            According to his Marine scorecard, Oswald scored 212 (sharpshooter) in December of 1956. He later scord a 191 (marksman) in May, 1959. You can review that scorecard (Warren Commission Exhibit 239) at http://www.maryferrell.org by conducting a quick search on that site. The shots that hit Kennedy were from distances of 60 and 88 yards, well within the ability of a Marine who qualifies as either a marksman or sharpshooter.

          • Harton Firmin says:

            My friend Lonnie’s father returned from WWII with an Italian Carcano. The old man was a lifelong deer hunter and owned many fine rifles. Together they spent hours trying to sight-in the Carcano. They were never successful and blamed the weapon’s poor rifling. The gun never shot twice the same way. By most accounts the Carcano is junk.

          • Gerry Simone says:

            He originally was sharpshooter in the late 50s after intensive training. When tested later, he declined to marksman. After that, there’s no evidence he regularly practiced with the MC.

            BTW, in the USMC, he used the M1 Garand Semi-Automatic rifle.

            This is nowhere close to the Manlicher-Carcano carbine weapon.

            Why the WC proponents equate the two skill levels when a cheap bolt action rifle was allegedly used years later is beyond any rational observer.

          • Paul Turner says:

            That’s right, Mario…he attempted to kill that General(Walker)from a closer range than where he was to JFK…..and missed the General.

        • Pook says:

          That is just … ridiculous nonsense.

          • Pook says:

            That was for “Dusty,” btw.

          • Pook says:

            The simple matter is LHO was the murderer. Now, we don’t know why LHO, himself, was killed but I think it’s time to look there for a change. To me, that’s the more interesting issue. I think you may find that it’s also very simple. One explanation is, if LHO was ever involved with organized crime for any reason, that would’ve been enough of a reason to off him, thinking that he may spill something else … because, let’s face it, he wasn’t too bright, a lot crazy and a loose cannon. They certainly wouldn’t have picked Jack Ruby to off him. I think he was killed because of an organized crime order, but for all we know, that order could’ve come down the pike from anyone, including the police. et’s remember, LHO killed one of their own. Organized crime, no doubt, owed the police a lot for looking the other way for many years. They were angry about Tippet, the President, and the Governor. It’s called, “Texas Justice.”

          • S.R."Dusty" Rohde says:

            Why is it ridiculous? Descriptions of the grassy knoll fit Ruby. Ruby was identified by witnesses as being in the grassy knoll area during the shooting. Ruby is a proven killer. Rubies supposed alibi has been proven false. Description of Rubies appearance and behavior shortly after the shooting would fit….and Ruby was the “Hatman”. Ruby was also ID’d as dropping off a man with what appeared to be a rifle near the overpass end of the grassy knoll…so its not outside the realm of possibilities. Mostly that post was a fishing excursion.

    • Paul Turner says:

      I’ll have to listen again to the Ike Pappas’ CBS live report of Oswald’s tranfer. Pappas was right close to Oswald to ask him “Do you have anything to say in your defense”? This was just before the gunshot. Perhaps Ruby yelled OSWALD as Pappas was asking the question.

  3. Eric Hollingsworth says:

    It’s hard for me to reconcile descriptions of Ruby before the assassination with his babblings afterwards.

    The Carousel Club seems as if it was the perfect venue for gathering compromising materials on people.

  4. Shane McBryde says:

    Wow! Home run! What a great story and discovery. That’s why JFKfacts.org is #1.

  5. Alan Dale says:

    After all these words and all of these years, does anyone here feel confident that Oswald and Ruby were personally affiliated? I have yet to see persuasive evidence that they knew each other.

    • Jack Joseph says:

      One problem here is that Jack Ruby was often seen with a young guy he had recently employed at the Carousel, Curtis LaVerne ‘Larry’ Crafard, who looked a lot like LHO (Ruth Paine certainly thought so). They had breakfast together at the B&B Restaurant early on Friday morning, 22nd. This might explain a lot of double LHO sightings

    • Gerry Simone says:

      Ask Beverly Oliver.

      Ruby answered ‘Fair Play for Cuba Committee’ at a press conference inside the police station. Did he read about that in the paper, or did he already know the answer from personal experience?

      Didn’t Roger Craig or someone see Ruby in Dealey Plaza or at the rear of the TSBD, or in an automobile with Oswald? (I could be wrong on this point about being seen with Oswald).

  6. Brian LeCloux says:

    Before you jump on this woman’s bandwagon do a little more reading. Some argued that Jack Ruby was mentally ill, based on professional examination.
    Here, for example:
    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Ruby%20Jack%20Psychiatric/Item%2006.pdf

    • Shane McBryde says:

      Good stuff. No doubt.

    • John Kirsch says:

      Even if Ruby was mentally ill (however you define that term) that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been coerced into shooting Oswald.

    • John Kirsch says:

      When Oswald told the newsmen that he was a “patsy,” I am inclined to believe he was telling the truth, or at least part of the truth. It isn’t too difficult to believe or suspect that Oswald had some sort of role in the assassination. The question is whether he KNEW he had a role in the assassination. When I look at the reports of fake Oswalds, the suspicious events involving someone named “Oswald” in Mexico City and the Clinton episode, I come away with the distinct impression that Oswald (the real Oswald, if indeed there was one) was being manipulated into a position where he would serve as the all-important suspect after the assassination. Consider the circumstances: the president had just been gunned down in broad daylight in front of swarms of people. Someone had to be arrested and charged ASAP, not only for the sake of the Dallas police department’s reputation but also so that the conspirators could escape detection. The longer the authorities took to apprehend a suspect, the greater the chance that actual clues to the conspiracy would become so obvious and well known that they couldn’t be ignored. And here was Oswald, a book depository employee who had left the building after the shooting and who had gotten into a scuffle with the police when they took him into custody in a theater. Soon the world learned that Oswald had defected to the Soviet Union, returned to Texas and gotten involved in pro-Castro activities. The authorities had their man, a communist no less. Never mind the lack of clear motive on Oswald’s part. He was the indispensable man, the patsy who would allow the police to boast that they had quickly captured the president’s killer. But once Oswald had been indelibly lodged in the public’s mind as the assassin, his usefulness to the conspiracy ended. In fact, he became a huge liability. Who knew what he might say on the witness stand? Even if Oswald didn’t pull a trigger that day, he may well have known who did. The entire conspiracy might have unraveled if a trial had been held. Given such stakes, the conspirators may have felt they had to turn to whomever was readily available. Yes, Ruby was unstable but he was vulnerable to pressure. And he was well known to the Dallas police, allowing him to apparently go wherever he wanted in the police station. So at the moment when Oswald was most vulnerable, Ruby was there to step forward with his handgun and shoot Oswald on national TV. In doing so, Ruby eliminated the possibility of a trial and provided a very clear warning to others with knowledge of the conspiracy. Keep quiet or this could happen to you too.

      • Shane McBryde says:

        Amazing really, that the whole assassination investigation was essentialy wrapped up in less than one hour! Suspect apprehended, charged, tried in the media, and on the 3rd day convicted and sentenced to death.

        Too bad the DPD couldn’t have taken the lead in the kidnapped Lindbergh baby investigation!

      • GhettoRanger says:

        John Kirsch, you forgot to mention one itsy bitsy detail about Oswalds arrest, he killed a cop remember?

      • S.R."Dusty" Rohde says:

        Let’s not forget that when arrested Ruby had a card given to him by a judge “Byrd”. The card requesting any law officials to aid in his endeavors.

    • leslie sharp says:

      I would proceed with caution when trusting any assessment involving Jolly West.

  7. John Kirsch says:

    For me, there are 2 basic questions: Why did the Secret Service fail to protect the president and why did the Dallas police fail to protect Oswald?

    • Paul Turner says:

      John, with regard to the Secret Service, some of them were called off from their duties right as the motorcade was leaving Love Field. That was an obvious order from someone-which leads to the question-from who???

  8. leslie sharp says:

    JK: My apologies. I think I must have clicked the wrong ‘reply.’

    My response was related to the exchange between LeCloux and McBryde regarding the “professional examination” of Ruby by West and Stubblefield.

    Sorry for any confusion.

  9. I think there are people alive TODAY in the year 2013 who played a role in the JFK assassination. For example, I think that CIA George Herbert Walker Bush is a very legitimate suspect in the JFK assassination due to his comments on the subject (does not know where he was, his ridiculous statement that we should believe the Warren Report because of the word of Jerry Ford), his hysterical reaction after reading Nixon’s “smoking gun” tape transcripts with all its mentions of the “whole Bay of Pigs thing” (Nixon’s code phrase for the JFK assassination). Not to mention what CIA Pegasus agent Trenton Parker told Rodney Stich. Another marker is GHW Bush’s close ties to anti-Castro Cuban radicals, his long history with them and the McBride memo revelation about GHW Bush.

    http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

    Not only that, I think that some of the CIA and anti-Castro Cuban operatives who actually did the field operations in the murder of John Kennedy are STILL alive today – in their mid 80′s, maybe early 90′s.

    I think a handful of the murderers of John Kennedy are alive today.

    And beyond that, I think there are many, many people alive today who can give us critical information on the 1963 Coup d’Etat and how it went down. For example, Mary Margaret Valenti, the most important LBJ mistress, is alive today and around age 80 or so. No telling what LBJ told her. Bobby Baker is alive today. Billie Sol Estes is alive today. I have no doubt there are many other people who have critical pieces to the story who are alive today.

    Connie Kritzberg who interviewed the Parkland doctors on 11/22/63 and who the FBI edited her column adding a sentence that night, is still alive today.

    • I think at the very least George Herbert Walker Bush can tell us exactly who murdered John Kennedy (LBJ, CIA, military intelligence, anti-Castro Cuban operatives). And at the most he (GHW Bush) was one of the inner circle plotters in the JFK assassination.

      • John Kirsch says:

        I’m not necessarily saying I disagree w/ your comments re: GHW Bush and his possible role in the assassination. But why would he have been involved, if he was? And if he wasn’t directly involved, how would he know who was? Because he was CIA director? I guess I’m still looking for answers to the questions that Russ Baker raised but did not answer in his book.

        • leslie sharp says:

          Following the Bush trail takes one down the rabbit hole of guilt by association over decades which very few are willing to risk time, energy and reputation on.

          It becomes necessary to weave those associations so tight around events that no thinking person let alone lawyer or jury could find holes in. To contain that much data in a single source is expensive and requires major support including legal to ensure the information can be published.

          Colby & Dennett did a masterful job with their expose on the Rockefellers in “Thy Will Be Done” (as well as their DuPont book), and I believe that a similar work on the related enterprises with which the Bush family was involved would prove an invaluable resource. I think that Baker has laid the scaffolding for such an effort.

          • leslie sharp says:

            And if I could add that in some ways, these last two generations of Bush’s have become what I would think of as patsies in a much larger operation. Not unlike Oswald, they are in the right place at the right time and appear oblivious to the depth of their involvement.

        • Why would GHW Bush have been involved in the JFK assassination. #1 GHW Bush was one of the recruiters for the Bay of Pigs – & there was much CIA/military/anti-Castro Cuban anger and rage at the Kennedys in that era.

          GHW Bush was also Texas oil – yet another hate group of the Kennedys. The Bushes were personal friends with Allen Dulles – yet another Kennedy hater with personal reasons.

          All the above groups were fully aware that JFK was about to politically execute LBJ in fall 1963 and they all harbored much resentment over Cuba policy.

          GHW Bush would have been involved simply bec/ he hated JFK like all the rest – resent over Cuba policy being a prime factor: http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

          • susan murauskas says:

            Sound of truth music to my ears= watching ‘Oliver Stone’s’ ‘Untold History’ all the pieces fall into place. Ask the right questions,,why where we in ‘Vietnam’,Rubber Plantations, my friends, it was a win win for the ‘Corporate Military Complex’. Why are we in ‘Afghanistan’, Poppies=Drugs=Mucho $$$$. Read, investigate ‘Air America’ in Indochina in the 60′s.

        • Because JFK vowed to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces”; Bush was the head of the CIA.

    • james H says:

      You are exactly correct! My dad has always told me that they are pushing back the date for releasing the documents until they know that all the key players are dead. I tend to believe him because he worked in the IRS organized crime task force. I can’t ever get him to tell me more about it.

    • Paul Turner says:

      Many of those people, if not all, could be quite crucial to investigate. Kritzberg especially, who I think knew something odd was going on the minute she learned what the FBI did to her column. Also, how about some of the witnesses. For instance, Arnold Rowland, who would be just 68 this year. Well, to be sure I don;t know for a fact he’s still alive.

  10. John Kirsch says:

    Responding to Leslie, I think what is really necessary is a serious revision of what has passed for “history” these last 40 or 50 years. A truth commission, if you will. And I think people could “handle the truth.” Over the years, in one episode after another where the broad outlines of the “hidden state” have briefly emerged, officials have chosen to hide the truth because, they say, the facts would be too disturbing for people to hear. I think it would be more accurate to say that the truth, if it were known, would be too dangerous to the careers of these officials — and to their ability to stay out of prison. I don’t really see myself as a “conspiracy” person per se. I just believe that a hidden and unaccountable national security state has arisen in our midst, and that this state poses a mortal threat to democracy.

    • leslie sharp says:

      I couldn’t agree more, and I believe that the best place to start is with the Kennedy assassination.

      Setting aside the premeditated murder of the man, the act was an assault against the fundamental premise of a democratic nation that chooses to elect it’s leaders (however flawed that has been). Because we did not address it effectively then, we live with the consequences.

    • Suziesuzie says:

      If you enjoy reading, check out the book Liberty and Justice for Some. It’s very clear how the elite receive immunity time and time again.

    • susan murauskas says:

      You are on the ‘right path’

  11. John Kirsch says:

    Not to belabor the point but I should have said “national security corporate state,” acknowledging my respect for the work of Chris Hedges … One thing I did get from Baker’s book was a greater appreciation of the links between the intelligence apparatus as it has developed and corporate America, esp. the oil business but by no means restricted to that. At times, in “Family of Secrets,” these things seemed to be 1 and the same. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of the last century knows where this sort of thing can lead. I know that sounds alarmist but it’s time for us to start ringing the fire bell.

    • Shane McBryde says:

      @John Kirsch

      “One thing I did get from Baker’s book was a greater appreciation of the links between the intelligence apparatus as it has developed and corporate America”

      To wit:

      http://www14.homepage.villanova.edu/david.barrett/bop.html

      During the 1970s, CIA historian Jack Pfeiffer wrote a Top Secret multi-volume history of 1961’s Bay of Pigs intervention in Cuba. Before his death, Pfeiffer sued unsuccessfully to de-classify some of the History.

      Though it is widely believed that all volumes are still classified, one is available at National Archives’ JFK Assassination Records Collection. Pfeiffer writes of incompetence at CIA, of an out-of-touch Allen Dulles, of too-close relations between CIA and anti-Castro U.S. corporate leaders, and about “The Question of Assassination.”

  12. Mark Groubert says:

    Great story. I believe her. Except for one thing. Ruby was gay. Lived with George Senator who has been described as a “Queen” in a relationship of sorts. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Ruby never had sex or hit on any of the strippers. Kept asking anyone who would listen, “Do I seem effeminate to you.” Over and over. See testimony of Larry Crafard for Warren Commission. Crafard, I believe, was a male hustler, but that’s just a hunch.

  13. Paul May says:

    Ruby’s movements on 11/24 are well documented. Oswald’s transfer was delayed some 79 minutes from the original time. How would authorities have notified Ruby of the exact time of the transfer? We know Ruby was in the Western Union office until approximately 11:17 AM.

    • Shane McBryde says:

      Probably sent him a text message. Lol, I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist that one.

      • don says:

        shane, good one, but in the time of pretext, fooling around with the transport vehicle while waiting for ruby to get there. what seemed highly improbable was extremely easy. it is like the math problem with the three guys who split the price of the hotel room, tipped the porter 1 dollar and the math didnt work out. it is the trick presentation and most cant figure it out.

        • Jordan says:

          Where was the Western Union office in relation to the DPD Garage and the armored car that was to be used to transport Oswald..?

          It’s entirely possible that Ruby stalled until the armored car arrived, and that he was told by phone of the approximate time of transfer.

    • mball says:

      Seth Kantor does a decent time and motion study in WHO WAS JACK RUBY? It revolves around a short period of time when Officer Harrison had access to a pay phone out of sight of the rest of his colleagues, and Jack Ruby receiving a phone call at his apartment on Sunday morning.

  14. Jim Morris says:

    No one asked her if Ruby knew Oswald?…I can’t believe it. As much else as she knew surely she would have known that. She was directly tied to Ruby and an admission from her that they knew each other would have been huge.

    • mball says:

      Interesting how important quesrtions don’t get asked. Or they get asked but not reproduced. Little Lynn Carlin (Davidson) would have been one to try and question, although she’d have been reluctant to talk I think. She showed up at a deposition or hearing in Dallas carrying a gun because ashe was so scared someone was going to shoot her. She apparently told a Secret Service man (maybe a Dallas cop too) that she was under the impression that Oswald, Ruby and others were in a plot to kill JFK. I don’t believe anyone followed up on that, or if they did they didn’t publish it. She’s dead now – passed away a couple of years ago. Lived in an obscure little town in Michigan. As did Larry Crafard. Her family name appears to have been Davidson.

  15. Mark D. Knight says:

    I think her comment about “Shadow Gay” actually referenced Chateaugay, the Kentucky Derby winner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chateaugay_(horse)

  16. Randy Owen says:

    Excellent find! My own speculation is that Ruby was ordered to kill Oswald, but didn’t want to do it. At about 6pm Friday night, he tried to go into the Homicide office. He had to know he would have been stopped. But he could go back to whoever ordered him to do and say he tried. At Oswald’s midnight press conference, he had his gun with him, but didn’t do it. He later said he was scared he might hit someone else. He could tell that, too, to whoever ordered him to do it. I’ve heard the theory Ruby would not have left his dog, Sheba, in his car, if he was going to kill Oswald on Sunday. But, IMO, he WOULD have if he thought Oswald had already been transferred. My speculation is Ruby was going to show up late so he tell whoever ordered him to do, that, “Sorry, I got there too late. Oswald was already gone.” That would explain why he was late…the transfer was supposed to have been at 10am, but didn’t happen until 11:15am. Ruby, IMO, walked in, saw Oswald there and realized he had no choice. If he didn’t get him this time, and if whoever ordered him to kill Oswald found out Jack was there, he was a dead man. He had to do it. But, I think, Ruby had planned to get there late so he could have an excuse for not killing Oswald. And that’s why he had Sheba with him. Ruby didn’t expect Oswald to be there over an hour after he was supposed to have been transferred. Just my speculation.

    • leslie sharp says:

      “He later said he was scared he might hit someone else.”

      That dovetails with my speculation that Ruby called out “Oswald” to alert the officers and others around – notice the recoil of Leavell in the photo.

      Who do you think gave Ruby the orders? He was with Lawrence Meyers (among others) the evening before he shot Oswald. Meyers’ brother was affiliated with Pepsi which was holding a convention at the Cabana over that weekend. You probably know all of this.

      • Paul Turner says:

        Leslie, two questions. 1)-Wasn’t Nixon at that Pepsi conference? 2)-I don’t know who gave Ruby the order to silence LHO, but that order had to be made after Tippitt failed to silence him first, right?

  17. John Kirsch says:

    maybe ruby shouted “oswald” because he knew oswald would recognize ruby’s voice and turn toward him, thus becoming a better target. ruby had to act quickly.

  18. Avinash says:

    Have you noticed how Captain Fritz who is supposed to guard Oswald from the front suddenly walks ahead leaving space between him and Oswald? This gives Ruby the opening needed. Do you think it was deliberate or just a coincidence?

    • Gerry Simone says:

      When he did that, he certainly didn’t protect him like they were supposed to.

    • Paul Turner says:

      Wasn’t Fritz the one who appeared to be waving his hands, as if to say “nothing to see here, move on”(well, he probably wasn’t saying THAT, but when I saw a film of the killing, it sure looked that way).

  19. Bob Cochran says:

    Jack Ruby was an interesting gentleman. Somehow even though many put him in the ceter of thing’s he doesn’t seem to be to me. We will probably never know the truth of the matter on this side of the veil, but I kind of think Raven is close to the real deal with jack Ruby… he did protect his girls ad was’t afraid to face danger or touble in his club.. I do think he was forced somehow to do what he did. Interesting, I have never heard him comment on the Garrison investigation before he died..

  20. Paul says:

    No one here seems to have mentioned Judyth Vary Baker, Lee’s girlfriend who’s come forward after a silence of close to 40 years. Her book “Me and Lee” answers a LOT of questions.

  21. Suziesuzie says:

    I don’t care what is written, what the investigation said, etc. I will alway believe it was a conspiracy and that it involved the mafia, union and Lyndon B. Johnson. I will never forget the moment I saw him being sworn in, I immediately said to my mom, I think Johnson had something to do with it. There was just something I saw on his face when he was sworn in and my sixth sense immediately kicked in. I think Oswald and Ruby were both given orders that they had to follow through with in silence or that harm would come to their families. Just my personal opinion of course.

    • Jimbo says:

      LBJ actually looked genuinely pleased, either with what he accomplished or the situation he found himself in. Either way, given the situation, you’d be hard pressed to find too many people with such a reaction.

      How come, no one else in the motorcade thought they might be next, only prior knowledge would give that sense of security.

  22. Tom says:

    I recall reading a JFK assassination book excerpt about a high end party which was held at Clint Murchison Jr.’s home. Clint was a powerful and influential Texas oil man, millionaire and then owner of the Dallas Cowboys. Murchison’s party held at his home on the eve of the assassination on 11/21/13 in Dallas or near Dallas, was attended by many of the alledged JFK assassination conspirators and co-conspirators, including; LBJ, Richard Nixon, J. Edgar Hoover, etc.

    Was that party just a coincidence or a purposeful final celebration AND confirmation that the operation was “A GO” for the assembled mastermind conspirators of the JFK assassination?

    Look it up and verify this event for yourself. The facts are all around if you just look for them.

    • Ronnie Wayne says:

      Read “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” by injured witness and Dallas area researcher James Tague. It is redundant in places and incorrect in it’s analysis of who ultimately “pulled the strings”. But it does contribute significantly on LBJ’s role and details this party. And why the author chose to leave it in his book in spite of prior criticism of the story.

  23. Ramon F Herrera says:

    Jack Ruby was a vain man, who dressed sharply, hair perfectly combed and AVOIDED wearing glasses (I checked all the pictures available). He was after all in entertainment, always surrounded by girls.

    However, it seems that he decided to make an exception: glasses would be useful every time he was in the same room as Oswald. During the Friday night press conference he wore his glasses, stayed in the last row AND physically crouched.

    http://patriot.net/~ramon/misc/Semi-Disguised-Ruby.jpg

    One could theorize that he didn’t want Lee to say to him, in the best Texan tradition: “Howdy! How is it goin’, partdner?”.

  24. Sir James says:

    Do you really believe the Kennedy clan with all their wealth and power wouldn’t have hunted the suspects down like dogs with the mafia and IRA and God knows who else behind them? You know how fast you would spill the beans if you would have put the so called perpetrators and their families in frightening harm. There is so much behind this that I urge all you fools to put away your keyboards and go fishing and tell us facts we DON’T know.

    • GJones says:

      I can’t tell you where, but several recent accounts in the news around the 50th anniversary have reported that RFK asked LBJ “Why did you kill my brother” or words to that affect. Bobbie was powerless two seconds after his brother was murdered. Jackie also believed LBJ was involved according to recent reports. Bobby may have hired investigators but what would he do with the information? This thread proves LBJ’s cover-up worked and is still working. They must have thought they needed to let let it go.

    • Gerry Simone says:

      You must be joking.

      There was no more power after JFK was killed.

      Even RFK said words to the effect (just prior to his death):

      “I now fully realize that only the powers of the presidency will reveal the secrets of my brother’s death.”

  25. Rhonda says:

    From reading various accounts over the years, it’s my understanding that Ruby killed Oswald to get a mob hit off of himself. The mob was going to kill him over some issue but cut a deal with him…do this thing for them and they would be even. They told him that not only would he get to live, he would probably only spend a little time in prison because he would be a national hero. Of course he spent the rest of his life in jail. He couldn’t go public with the truth because the mob could still get him at any time…but there were people who knew the truth.

  26. Charles Kennedy says:

    I find this forum most civil and open to fact, speculation and informed conjecture. Bravo!
    My slant of the JFK assassination is that it was a coup d’état, ladies and gentlemen. I submit for your consideration the following facts which prove it was a coup (overthrow of the current regime):
    1. JFK moved towards detente with both the USSR and Cuba
    2. JFK realized we could assist Vietnam, but could not win a ground war; after all, it was a civil war.
    3. JFK sought to make CIVIL RIGHTS a centerpiece of his 1964 re-election campaign
    4. JFK defied the National Security Apparatus; he deferred attacking (using nuclear warheads) Russia; he deferred invading Cuba (during Cuban Missile Crisis)
    5. He fired Dulles, Bissell, and Cabell (brother of Dallas Mayor) after Bay of Pigs
    6. He intended to dump Johnson (investigated for graft and connections to Sol Estes, and Bobby Baker) from his 64 re-election ticket, favoring Senator Sanford of Connecticut, or Smathers of
    Florida
    7. JFK sought to withdraw from Vietnam by 1965. He also sought to dismantle the Cold War, Atmospheric Nuclear Testing, and the Arms Race “MAD” (Mutually Assured Destruction) stock piling of nuclear weapons by USA and USSR.
    8. Both His Newspaper Association Speech and his American University Commencement Speech signaled a change towards peaceful conflict resolution as opposed to sending in the US forces to force resolution to conflict
    9. Both the JCS, the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI, and Naval Intelligence, the Mob, Anti-Castro Cuban, Big Oil, Banking, and Steel (and so many more groups) opposed Kennedy’s military, intelligence, civil rights, business, and foreign relation policies
    10. Had JFK won re-election, his powerful opponents feared a Kennedy Dynasty (8 years of Bobby, followed by 8 years of Ted)
    11. Secret Service Agent Holden exposed the Chicago Plot; Racist Milteer exposed the Dallas plot and conspiracy to “pick someone up to throw off the public.” The Chicago hit was called off when FBI and Secret Service where “informed” of the pending hit. Chicago (cancelled), Tampa/Miami, and Dallas were the Major cities Kennedy would travel in November ’63.
    12. The coup planners carefully manipulated events behind the scenes. Johnson controlled Texas politics (Big Oil controlled Johnson), Texas was the Oil Capital of the USA. Oil changed the dynamic of power nationally from the North to the South. Bell Helicopter was Headquartered in Texas. The major defense contractors were in Texas. Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby were in Texas. Dallas police were in Texas, and the FBI was in Texas. Hover and Johnson, two top controllers of the cover-up and D.C. neighbors, were in danger of being dumped or retired by Kennedy.
    13. Joint Chiefs vehemently opposed Kennedy.
    14. In 1963, the “fabric” of American Society was dictated to by an integrated Military, Financial, Industry, Intelligence, Political, Mobster, News, Religion, and Educational hierarchy – what Peter Dale Scot calls “Deep Politics.” A former slave (Fredrick Douglass) stated that “Power concedes nothing without a demand.”
    15. After Kennedy was slaughtered, Johnson was on hand to usurp the Presidency. Oswald was on hand to be apprehended. Ruby was on hand to silence the patsy. Enter the Warren Commission, fully sponsored by enemies of John F Kennedy to further protect their (Rockefeller/Bush/Hughes/Johnson/Hoover/Dulles/Military-CIA/Oil/Banking) interests.
    16. Detente with Russia ended, Vietnam escalated, and detente with Cuba ended. Assassination as a political solution took Malcolm X(civil rights, anti-war), Medgar Evers (civil rights), Martin L King (civil rights, anti-war), Bobby Kennedy (civil rights, anti-war) and a host of uncompromising world leaders over the years. Martin Luther King, opposing the Vietnam escalation, declared shortly before he was killed that “the biggest murderer in the world is my own government.
    A coup d’état is not a mystery, but is has become a great American parlor game. Who stands to profit from war, assassination, and power shifts? It is the elite classes. Power in American is NOT in the hands of the people, but the rich and powerful. We vote or remove politicians from office – predictable! The elites and the powerful start and stop industries, wars, movements, news, and trends. We are but sheep under their directions. Kennedy was an uncompromising world leader who challenged the power elites status quo arrangement of interlocking levels of powerful people across vast domains and countries. We think country (USA); power elites think global. Kennedy thought globally and he presented a threat to global status quo interests – the elites. Kennedy had to die so that the elites could continue to enjoy their privileged positions and world hegemony. Communism has never been a threat to America, but it was cleverly used as a shield to carry out arms build-up, rogue investigations, to topple leaders from power, coup d’état of foreign leaders by the elites (using the CIA).
    I rest my case.

    • You said it all………………….

    • lucky luciano says:

      in light of what you stated yr all wrong its not some big anti regime conspriacy , people need to look at it for what it was and nothing more a anti american communist loving nut shot 2 times one bounced and missed but hit a guys leg down by the bridge the other hit kennedys throat and the gov and the head shot as per evidence shows a hollow point 223 bullet from secret agent hickeys gun ,read the witness accounts their is only 2 guns put on site ,oswalds and hickeys , if any top secret enterprizes wnated kennedy dead they would not have used some patsy and an old fing gun they would have made it either look like some accident or used a bomb such as the nutt who also wnated him dead yrs ealier but with held because his wife and kids were there . People need to let this sheet go it wasnt lbj it wasnt the cia it wasnt the fbi it wasnt the mob it wasnt fidel or the russians , it was one nutt who had a 50/50 chance out of 2 shots and then head shot was a friggin accident from some hung over drunk agent who acciodently fired his gun

    • Tom says:

      The Kennedy family was a huge part of this power center you speak of. JFK was certainly not a stranger to organized crime…Joe kennedy made the family fortune running liquor during prohibition.
      It is also widely rumored that Joe Sr. bought the Chicago vote which just barely turned the election into a Kennedy victory. So it is no wonder that JFK got whacked by the mob – my guess is it was payback for a Joe Sr. “job.”
      The Kennedy family got exactly what it deserved I’m sad to say. What’s really troubling is that the next two presidents were mobsters, too!!

      • Windy City says:

        …exploring ALL possibilities, that could have transpired, but there is a lot of ground that has been uncovered that makes your theory questionable at best, Lucky.

        We are way less naive than in 1963 and cyberspace has made investigating coups like this so much easier. If what you state is factual, the books would have been open a long time ago, not closed as they are now. That is the biggest hint that there is “something rotten in Denmark”…

    • Ronnie Wayne says:

      How did you get a hold of the manuscript for my book Blue bloods?
      I’ve not shown it to anyone.
      Seriously, thank you for putting that all together.
      In conjunction with your statement I have pointed out to a few people the Kennedy’s were new money from the 1920′s-30′s. Between that, being Irish and Catholic they were not well accepted by some of the old money establishment.
      Also, I have asked the question who did the Dulles brothers work for on Wall Street. Who did they still associate with at the time of the assassination?
      The CIA and even JFK’s administration were well populated with Blue bloods.

      • Ronnie Wayne says:

        Oop’s, sorry about the they. I think Secretary of State for Eisenhower/Nixon, John Foster Dulles had passed by 63′. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

    • GJones says:

      You are correct. It was Coupe D’etat. But the U.S. Government still controls a ton of records on this case and they will never release anything that supports this conclusion.

  27. Edward Lloyd says:

    Mr. Charles Kennedy; You have expressed my exact words, feelings, and knowledge of this case, and nearly to the exact letter. Evidence was planted, altered, destroyed. Testimonies were altered, ignored, coerced. Witnesses were threatened, killed, etc. There is little more that needs to be said, because, to use that old phrase, this proves true because it walks / talks / quacks like the duck that it is.

  28. Edward Lloyd says:

    I will give this comment only as a referral to photographic evidence. The website known as jfkassassinationgallery.com has many photos. The Altgens file has a photo called Alt7crop.jpg which shows a man on the triple overpass holding a radio to his right ear and looking at his watch. He is 4th from left, has a flattop/crewcut, and even the antenna. is visible. Look for yourself, because seeing is believing.

    • Loreli Hoard says:

      He could have been secret service and the photo could have been taken AFTER President Kennedy was shot, or even if it was before he was shot he could have been perfectly innocent, talking to other agents who were actually trying to protect the President.

  29. Loreli Hoard says:

    I do not believe in coincidence, especially not to the degree that we are expected to believe they happened. What are the odds that someone who wanted to kill the president, a lone gun-man, would just happen to move to the very city where the president would be going to, AND that a month beforehand, the shooter would land a job in the exact place he needed to be to kill the president? Couldn’t happen.

    • Loreli Hoard says:

      The fact that LHO just happens to move back to Dallas, and just happens to get a job right where he needed to be is proof enough that he had to have inside information at the very least, and was part of something bigger. He may not have known who else was involved, but he was placed in the book depository job on purpose. Ask yourself the following; There just happened to be a job opening? The opening just happened to be on the parade route? The lone freak that wants to kill the president just happened to be so lucky that he offhandedly finds out about a job opening at the depository? And he just happens to be the person they hire? WOW!! How stupid do they think people are? It is so preposterous and ridiculous, I can’t believe anyone would believe such events could just occur unless they had been meticulously planned.

      • James Martin says:

        Finally – someone with critical thinking skills posts such a simple logical question!! I’ve often asked that very question to others as to the odds that someone gets a job in the right place to assassinate such a high level figure. Same deal with Sirhan Sirhan who killed RFK? Placing people in the ‘right spots’ to do these horrible acts are the specialty of the CIA (and some other nations intelligence/assassination organizations).

        • Jack Joseph says:

          Ruth Paine found out about the TSBD job vacancy from Buell Frazier’s sister (Buell being the guy who drove LHO into work from Irvine). Strange thing is that at the same time, the Employment Office such as it was rang Paine to say they had a job for Lee as a cargo handler at the airport with higher pay, but Ruth neglects to tell Lee, or the opportunity slips by.

          Ruth Paine, as is widely known, was handled by George de Mohrenschildt, who was a known CIA alongsider. And of course, the TSBD was owned by D H Byrd, a Suite 8F member with big oil connections. Possibly (a) Ruth was on the lookout for such this particular vacancy, and (b) let the Fraziers know. The connections between Paine and the company are many

      • Jim Hougan says:

        Oswald began work at the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) in mid-October, more than a month before President Kennedy was to visit Dallas. The parade route was not finalized until November 18th, when the decision was taken to divert the motorcade so that it would pass beneath the TSBD. If Oswald’s employment at the TSBD was part of a conspiracy to murder the President, the conspirators would necessarily have been privy to the motorcade’s route – and in control of it – from its earliest planning stages. (That JFK would visit Dallas was decided upon in September.)

        As unlikely as this must seem, the alternative makes even less sense. That it is to say, if Oswald’s employment at the TSBD was truly “serendipitous,” then the decision to shoot the President must have been impulsive – a carpe diem decision taken three days before the parade in a quest for notoriety. The problem with this scenario, however, is that if Oswald shot Kennedy to become “famous,” he would hardly have insisted that he was innocent and “a patsy.” If he were seeking fame (or infamy), he would have taken credit for the shooting.

        • Jack Joseph says:

          The plan became hot when the attempt on JFK’s life in Chicago on 1st November was messed up big time by CPD intelligence officers Pressures of timing forced the pace – this was possibly the last day that LBJ’s pressing problems could be relieved.

          Jim, how about the Sionics silencer and it’s notable affect on people standing in front of it mentioned in Spooks; The Haunting of America?

      • Paul Turner says:

        Loreli, I’m with you all the way. One thing to add is that the owner of the TSBD knew LBJ and Mac Wallace(LBJ’s hitman, who I do believe fired a couple shots from the 6th floor on 11-22-63). Byrd was the owner’s name, I think. DH Byrd.

  30. Loreli Hoard says:

    Okay. I have a question that is horrible to think about, but it has always bothered me. If President Kennedy was shot from behind wouldn’t the pieces of his skull etc. have been blown out forward of him? I say this because whenever anyone speaks to the reasoning behind Jackie climbing onto the trunk of the car, they say she was trying to get the pieces of his head. If this is true, why would the pieces be behind him if the shot CAME from behind?

    • Paul Turner says:

      Not only that, Loreli, but you have that Secret Serviceman Hargis(riding along side), who got splattered with blood. His partner, Clint Hill(whose actions I’ve questioned for a long time)saw it all come out the back, too.

  31. Anne Berry says:

    Good grief people. You leftists try to blame Bush fir everything. Get over yourselves. Oswald was a Communist wannabe and that was his motive. period. If you don’t think Communism is something to worry about you need to wake up. Marxism goes by many names. Today those principles are called Progressive. Beware

    • KateyS says:

      You are just nuts. Why don’t you want to think about some facts like ballistics? Put some pieces together with science, not just hate of a group.

      • lucky luciano says:

        you wnat to talk ballastics ?????it was shot from a 223 hollow point gun that mr hickey in the car behind hasd ,the secret service man accidently shot him and then THEY covered it up in alot of ways and one is by brianwashing all you people into thinking everyone on the planet did it but mr hickey their man

        • Christopher says:

          Why did L.B.J hire Allen Dulles head of the Warren Commision even though he was fired from the C.I.A for the bay of pigs. George Joannides was funding the DRE anti Castro group which was one of the largest groups of that time. In 1975 Joannides was the liaison for the C.I.A. and the House select committee on assasinations and never mentioned that he over saw the DRE also never told the Warren Commision and the Assasination Records Review Board in 1994-98 and the C.I.A has not released his flies yet. It is proven that Oswald had a meeting with the DRE and Joannides being the overseer of the group would have known because Oswald got into a fight with a member named Carlos Bringoier. Not to mention that Sam Giancan talked to none other than Allen Dulles to plot to kill Castro. Old Sam and John both had an affair with Judith Campell. The mob also had motive to kill Castro after he took over he threw them out.

          • Christopher says:

            Even when Oswald allegedly shot a General Walker a neighbor said she saw two men leave in separate cars and drive real fast away. Robert Surrey of General Walker said he saw two men out side walkers house acting suspiciously two days before the shooting and
            neither of th were able to give the police an accurate discription of who the shooters were.

        • Christopher says:

          Do you believe that R.F.K and M.L.K were also assassinated by lone gun such as James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan or just mere coincidences?

  32. Jerry Long says:

    Amazing reading on here. Not that I believe everything some are portraying as conclusive evidence of conspiracy. On the other hand, some things that are proven to have happened surrounding the murder of the president are simply too hard to just push into the sheer coincidence pile. I stumbled onto this site while watching JFK the movie, grew up around New Orleans, and have heard the mob ordered hit theory quite a bit. I was only 2 years old in 1963 so I have no real recall of that awful day.

  33. Brian Stanton says:

    Logistics Don’t Lie: Why would the Texas Book Depository shooter wait until the President’s car was 265 feet away and accelerating away from him before taking his shots. His best shot was earlier when the motorcade was 95 feet in front of him, slowing to make a turn and President Kennedy was square to the shooter. The only reason to wait is ‘TRIANGULATION’. Where the president was shot was exactly in the execution zone made up of the Texas Book Depository, the grassy knoll and the Dal-Tex building (where rifle shell casings were found year later on the roof).

  34. David Kurtz says:

    It would most definately be a different country we live in today, if John F. Kennedy was NOT killed. However, evrything happens for a reason.

    Ref. – Search youtube: “JFK secret service stand down”.
    There’s NO audio, but if a picture tells a thousand words, a video tells all.

    I find it particularly very odd that the secret service agent who was suppose to be posted directly behind JFK was told to get out of the way, and stand down. <<>>

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

  35. Thomas Mulholland says:

    Very recently I watched the NOVA program THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE about the life (and death) of John F. Kennedy. I had forgotten what an extraordinarily beautiful family they were. Not only Americans but people around the world were inspired by them. It wasn’t simply that John Kennedy’s life was taken from him and his family. He was taken from us. Part of the ensuing pain and sadness was who followed was so ugly and tiresome.
    In a certain way I think the forensic particulars are a red herring; which is to say that bullets, trajectories, etc. aren’t the essential point. Who orchestrated the assassination? That’s the important question. The lameness of Ruby’s motivation for killing Oswald and the “serendipity” surrounding the hiring of Oswald at the Book Depository are too absurd to be believed. I hope the real perpetrators will be revealed someday. They obviously are very powerful…but their treachery and jealousy make them very small.

  36. John U. Fitzgerald says:

    I watched a TV programme, 15th Nov 13 “The Day Kennedy Died”, screened by ITV (UK) 14th Nov 13 at 10.35pm. What alarmed me on this programme, apart from the obvious of course, was the expression on L B Johnson’s face at the press conference in Forth Worth just a few hours before the assassination. Here, LBJ appeared to have a forced smile and gave JFK a look that he knew something – he knew he would be dead in a few hours time. I am no face reader, but this look appeared to say plenty! It would be interesting for a face reading expert to give their opinion on this! However, you don’t have to be a face reader, it was in LBJ’s eyes and the eyes don’t and can’t lie!
    Note: I am not a conspiracy theorist, in fact I suffer from information overload on this subject now and don’t know what to believe; however, LHO being in the Book Depository and acquiring this job just one month before JKF’s motorcade was to pass bye the very department in which he worked, is difficult to believe was mere coincidence! This assassination took some planning; surely LHO didn’t just decide to do this on the spare of the moment with a few days of planning? When was the trip to Dallas actually planned; how many weeks – more than four?
    I’ve recently heard a new theory that it was actually a secret service agent in the following car that shot J F K, but accidentally! I understand that LB Johnson was in this car; is that true? Whatever, whoever was in the car must have witnessed the gun go off if it happened that way, therefore, there must be many witnesses! So why have they kept quite if this is the case – has the incident been covered up and if so, is it because of simple embarrassment, or is it due to something more sinister – was he the real assassin, making sure JFK died knowing full well that there was a Patsy; knowing LHO would take the blame?

    RIP John Fitzgerald Kennedy – Regards to your family.

  37. Phil says:

    For those who believe it would’ve taken great skill to kill Kennedy from the 6th floor window. My 9 year old grandson could make those shots!
    I was 11 when Kennedy was killed and always believed it had to have been a incredible marksman to hit those two shots! Until, that is, I visited the 6th floor museum last July. While you can’t get up to the actual window Oswald shot him from, ( cordoned off with plexiglass) you can look out the windows immediately to the right! Going by the two white x’s on the pavement Kennedy’s car was moving strait away from Oswald, making Kennedy a stationary target! The street angles away from the building! Making a perfect situation for Oswald! Had to have taken a lot of planning to get a shooter in this most perfect of spots!

    • Ronnie Wayne says:

      If you want to see a perfect “fish in a barrel” shot that would have caused his brains to splatter to his left rear go behind the fence on the grassy knoll, about 10-15 West of the corner and look at the second X. Oh yeah, sorry, the city of dallas paved over the X for the anniversary.

    • Gerry Simone says:

      Read my reply way above and educate yourself with links to Michael T. Griffith’s detailed articles.

  38. The facts are more intresting, in my opinion , i can shoot very good and and oswald was not a trained shooter and only short before he had ordered a rifle by mail. To shoot 3 times,reload , ame and hit twice you must be a remarcable shootist to hit a moving target twice on 150 meters. An 35 hrs later a maffia type man shot then oswald for a unclear reason. My ordinary brain says that the reality is totally different then what they want us to believe.

  39. AA1986 says:

    I am considered Young. And my generation is wondering around aimlessly with no purpose. BUT I have always had a obsession with JFK. I think that his way with words and people. Even if you weren’t for the same things he was you couldn’t help but be captivated by his presence. I would to have loved to been there in that era to be able to feel the hope and pride that so many must have felt. I know that there will never be a time like the Kennedy era again. It is a subject that still captures so many and will continue until every detail and report is brought to light. I hope that in 2029 I am one of the first in line at the national archives to view them. I feel that there are too many holes in the reports and information we were allotted to have. I’m not sure who fired the shots, but I hope one day we will all know.

    • Christopher says:

      Me also I’m not from that generation also buy for some reason I have to know the truth and obsessed with the J.F.K assasination. I have been to the sixth floor and looked down and an cold chill went down my spine because it just looked to easy of a shot, not to mention I went behind the grassy knoll and anther chill went down my s

      • Christopher says:

        Spin and thought this was to perfect. I can help but think the assasination of J.F.K and R.F.K and M.L.K are some how connected. Oswald, Sirhan, and Ray were these looney guys that all acted alone.

    • Ronnie Wayne says:

      Thank you for your commitment from some of us who might not be here by that time. With pursuit the Truth will be found in time. It is important for all generations. That’s why it’s important for an older generation to FREE THE FILES NOW!
      That we may pass on the truth to our children and grandchildren.

  40. W. DeFord says:

    Oswald could have easily made the shots, even with the cheap surplus rifle that was found on the 6th floor.. How he would have not left fingerprints on it and tested negative for gunpowder residue is constantly ignored as is the Mauser rifle that was first found nearby.. The detective that found and identified the Mauser was also a weekend employ of Ray’s Hardware which sold more firearms than any other business in Dallas County.. As for Oswald’s proficiency with the rifle, he was seen at a shooting range on West Davis by Dr. Sterling Wood and his father who also a doctor earlier in 1963.. They said he was very accurate with the cheap rifle and even let Sterling fire it… They had see Oswald there twice and both times had given him a ride back to a corner close to where he lived… Oswald was very well trained by the USMC and qualified as a Sharpshooter at Edson Range while in Boot Camp… It was later while overseas that he qualified as a Marksman, just a few points shy of a score of Marksman. In my training platoon of over 80 recruits, only 2 or 3 guys shot Expert….

  41. Christopher says:

    During that time it does prove that the C.I.A and the mob tried to kill Castro. So there is a connection between the F.B.I. I. The movie Mississippi burning when the scene of the rather large African American pulls a razor out and makes the K.K.K speak about the 3 missing civil rights men. Well some of that is true, but the real person that pulled out the razor to make the K.K.K man speak was Gregory Scarpa who was Mafia man and was selling secrets to the F.B.I and carried out murders while he was an informant.

  42. Christopher says:

    I meant to connection with the mob and C.I.A that tried to kill Castro and slowly but surely every body involved in that was being killed of.

  43. Jordan says:

    All this talk about Oswald getting a job at the TSBD as a prelude to assassination is ludicrous. He applied at many places prior to getting the job at the TSBD.
    In fact, there was not supposed to be any motorcade at all and there was no planned route for any such motorcade prior at the time Oswald was hired.
    Gov. Connally tried everything possible to not have a motorcade for the President’s visit to Dallas.
    The motorcade idea was ‘pushed’ by people in Texas, not the White House or Washington.
    Claiming that Oswald knew about, and planned the killing during the motorcade is sheer fantasy.

  44. Jordan says:

    Just noted on CNN, James Tague stated that none of the assassination witnesses are to be present today, Nov. 22, 2013 in Dealey Plaza for the 50 year commemoration.

  45. jan says:

    I think that there was a conspiracy to kill the president. I believe it was either mob driven or by Castro in Cuba. Ruby acted on orders from someone for sure. Oswald bought the guns that killed the police officer and Kennedy in Chicago. Ruby was from Chicago: We will never know who was responsible, but I know it goes much deeper than what we know.

  46. Joshua Essary says:

    I’m not a big follower of everything tied to JFK and the assassination, but why is it that no one has ever pointed out that the Dallas Federal Building/ Old Post office sits In plain sight across the streets from the book depository. When I enlisted in 2001 I looked out of the window of MEPS my stomach dropped. You can see the X from the window, you could definitely get a full vantage point if you were on the roof as a true shooter would be. Look on a google map of the Dallas Federal Building, and then mark where JFK had been shot, the direction that his head kicked back on the final shot. At most it was a 300 yard shot, well within range of any trained sharp shooter, all they would have to do is wait for the motorcade to clear the trees, slow moving target would allow for minimal leading. That federal building/ post office houses several agencies. Just my opinion, and being a former military sharp shooter I can tell you that we used to refer to it as an “L” shaped ambush.

  47. Paul Young says:

    Having been to Dallas in the early 90′s, visiting TBSD & DP, if JFK was shot from behind…. then why did he have a small entrance wound in his face and half of skull blown out at the back of his head. Doesn’t the latter prove he was shot from the front?
    I don’t know anything about guns, except that the exit wound it usually bigger than the entrance wound!

  48. Binky Bob says:

    Stumbled across the “rush to”judgement” documentary of Mark Lane on utube, all nay Sayers say ruby didn’t know Oswald , in fact a huge cornerstone of bugliosi’s tome. Yet in that documentary they show a clip of Ruby at the press conference and after Ruby kills Oswald there is a press conference where the Dallas pr guy states Ruby asked a question then is corrected that he answered a question. What question could he answer about Oswald if he didn’t know him? It’s long been believed that he corrected them on the “fair play for Cuba” group that Oswald was the sole member of in New Orleans. One heck of a guess on Ruby’s part if that’s the question he corrected them on, you would think there would be notes or tape on the first press conference that could confirm this and if it did, would sure throw water on all the anti-conspiracy people.

  49. Thomas Tucker says:

    The night before he killed Oswald, Ruby had dinner with Joe Campisi, local Mafia boss under the control of Carlos Marcello in New Orleans. Cmpisi also visited Ruby in jail afterhis arrest. That tells me all I need to know.

  50. Janice Sue says:

    Read JFK:Smoking Gun. As a long time believer in the conspiracy theories, I found the argument in this book compelling. The kill shot came from the secret service guy in the follow up car by accident.
    Who rushed the body out of Texas, the secret service
    Who grabbed photos and evidence at the autopsy? The secret service.
    Watching the CBS streaming in real time, noticed a couple of things, when asked who was in the room during Oswald’s first interogation Friday night, the chief of police said, “our head detecive, an FBI agent and a man from the secret service”. Why would the secret service be there, they are not an investigation organization. Right after Oswald was shot, a reporter asked a bystander who had been standing next to Ruby if he knew the man. His answer was “I thought he was secret service”. About 40 minutes later a CBS reporter said it definately was not a secret service man. Makes you wonder if it was something repeated by more than just that one guy. Makes you wonder why the guy thought Ruby was secret service. Just pondering.
    Another interview I thought was interesting was with Gov Connally’s doctor. He said, while the gov was still in surgury, that the bullet was still in the gov’s left thigh. When asked about that the doc said the thigh wound was minor and they were working on the wrist at that moment and would remove the bullet when they addressed that wound last. Ok, so wouldn’t the doc be aware of the chain of evidence in a shooting and package and label the bullet upon removing it? Where did that bullet go and how did one wind up on a gurney?
    If there wasn’t so much cover up going on, there never would have been a conspiracy suggested. Personally I think the secret service closed ranks to protect themselves. The had to control evidence, they had to be sure there would be no trial.
    Oswald? He shot twice, missed once, made the “magic bullet” shot, and before he could get a third shot off, saw the presidents head blow up. He knew that wasn’t his shot. Probably paniced, thought he’d stumbled on to someone elses plot for which he would be made the patsy. Just conjecture.

    • B Binnie says:

      I like the thought process- Yes something happened that blew the plan to hell and your idea is a good one- LHO must have been part of the assassination and he probably brought a weapon to the building ( although the carcano rifle couldnt be broken down to be able to cup under his arm pit)- I had a hard time thinking he was a shooter but nothing else makes sense- Maybe he believed his role was shoot at JFK with near misses that would still perform the desired result to get Castro overthrown. He was a CIA asset (Military trained russian speaker- Worked at the most sensitive military base in the world- Threatened to tell the Russians everything about the most clandentine spy program in history. Comes back after defecting and does so on the Governments dime- Is repatriated without a blink- Works every angle of the Castro movement in New Orleans- Has some complicity in the creation of the immense chain of evidence that makes him look like a communist sponsered assassin) The plan would have been for him take his missed shots, meet his folks and dissapear but when he saw JFKs head explode he quickly realized that meeting up with his folks was going to be bad for his health. If LHO was a pure patsy he would have been dead and gone by noon time- I believe the study of the JFK killing has to move past poking holes in the nonsensical WCR which is shooting fish in a barrel and begin to create a realistic picture of what really happened. We live in a time where every single Network TV show receits bald face lies about this crime with impunity and gives the premise that Aliens killed JFK equal footing with plausable conspiracy content- The machine of Government is re writing history and the absurd recontructions of Posner- Bugliosi which were laughed at 10-20 years ago are now being treated as historical fact.

    • Jordan says:

      I saw the Doctor making the claim that the bullet was still in his leg as well. While it was later claimed that Connally carried fragments in his femur, I’ve never seen an assessment of the mass of those fragments.
      Personally, I believe that LHO may very well have been acting on behalf of the Agency investigating gun-running and Mail Order firearms delivery.
      What I find surprising is his classification as a disgruntled loner seems to overwhelm the fact that nearly every person he knew or was involved with was somehow related to an Intelligence agency of some kind.

      • B Binnie says:

        ce 399 was fired into cotton wadding so that it would preserve the barrel markings and could be easily traced to LHO’s Carcano Rifle- No person who is not making a lot of money by writing bad books could possibly believe that ce 399 was not planted for purposes of framing LHO- The lead that was left in Connally’s wrist was significant and there is clear testimony that a large fragment was found in his thigh- Refuting the Magic bullet gives credibility to the absurd- What is critical is to understand what LHO knew of the Plot and why he was still alive at 12.30 PM and where did things go wrong so that poor Ruby was coerced into cleaning up the mess-

        • Janice Sue says:

          The doc said “the bullet is still in the Governor’s left thigh” and would be removed when they dealt with that injury. Where is that bullet?
          By the way Secret Service agent Sorrels went up to the jail right behind Ruby, after the Oswald shooting before Oswald was even removed. That makes him one of the first people to talk to Ruby after the shooting. He reported that Ruby told him about entering the garage by going down the ramp. The secret serve agent was the first person to state that publically. This is from his wc testimony. Seems like the secret service had their hands on everything.

          • Paul Turner says:

            About the role of the Secret Service in the asassination, I’m still trying to piece together the actions of Clint Hill. I know his main job was to protect Jackie Kennedy, but wasn’t Jackie’s husband JFK himself? An asassination researcher called Hill “a true American hero”, and I wonder if that is because his actions proved a conspiracy.

        • tolivr says:

          Nonsense. The Carcano bullet (CE 399) was examined and found to be missing approximately 2 grains of lead from its core. Less than 2 grains of lead was recovered from the body of Connally and Kennedy. The lead recovered and the lead from the bullet were subjected to neutron activation testing and were determined to be from the same batch of 6.5 mm carcao ammunition used by Oswald and manufactured by Western Cartridge Company. For someone to have planted the bullet, they would have to know, in advance, that the bullet would lose 2 grains of lead from its core, and they would have to plant those lead fragments in Connally’s body. They would also have to know that the bullet would not leave any trace or grains of its copper jacketing, but instead would leave only minute lead fragments behind. And that would be absolutely impossible to know.

  51. S.R."Dusty" Rohde says:

    “Ruby had bosses”….. that might explain Jim Martins jail visit with Ruby. After Rubies arrest he stated that Jim Martin had killed his good friend Leon Cook and is why he changed his middle name to Leon… but that Martin had gotten away with the killing due to his connections. If true, why would Ruby want the killer of his longtime friend visiting him in jail? Or was this a mob connection. (killing took place wile Ruby worked for the Union in Chicago.

  52. Billy 'the truth' Steel says:

    Pook made the simple assessment ‘The simple matter is LHO was the murderer…’ Pook, could you please tell me WHO killed LHO? Fact: Jack Rubenstein (aka: Jack Ruby) was a MOBSTER and a nightclub owner (the Carousel) and as such was undoubtedly well known by both Cuban and American mobsters who (along with the CIA) wanted Kennedy out of the presidency. These are well known facts! And to myself, that’s a pretty good motive. What were LHO’s motives? Fame and Fortune! Hardly. My simple assessment: Jack Ruby was the murderer!

    • tolivr says:

      My reading on organized crime reveals that the “Mob” would not hire a hit man, to kill the most important witness in arguably the most important murder in American history, who was mentally unbalanced, who was a police informant, who was a loud, obnoxious, insecure blowhard, who had no weapons training or experience, and who had no record of having killled anyone previously. Logically, the “Mob” would hire a professional assasin or hitman who had some experience in these matters. And it certainly would not have him wiring money at a Western Union office to a stripper only minutes before Oswald was escorted into the basement of the Dallas police department, and thus arriving at the scene to kill Oswald only seconds before Oswald would have been in a car and safely removed from the station. Surely the “Mob” is capable of doing better than that.

  53. [...] union mafia stooge, supposedly torn by grief at the death of the President (whose brother he personally hated), later claiming that it was part of a conspiracy the world will never [...]

  54. Look Into The Dogs says:

    Jack Ruby had two (2) dogs and treated them as children. And the fact there was only one (1) dog left in the car. You have your answer as to why Ruby killed Oswald. The other dog would have been chopped up and sent to Ruby in pieces.

  55. Look Into The Dogs says:

    Clipper was the other dog

  56. tolivr says:

    I’m sorry, but this article is absolutely worthless. Nothing, unequivocally and without doubt, nothing in it can be used as evidence in any court of law. This former stripper “believes” Ruby was instructed to kill Oswald, and she “thinks” law enforcement officers gave him information about Oswald’s whereabouts on the day Ruby killed him. I have a friend who is a Scientologist who “believes” in an evil intergalactic warlord named Xenu, and who “thinks” something called a body thetan is the cause of diseases that afflict humans. His beliefs and thoughts, however sincere, do not amount to fact; neither do this woman’s.

  57. michael says:

    The race she is remembering was Candy Spots and “Chateaugay.” The part about the dog is interesting. She thinks he killed Oswald on the spur of the moment or was forced to accelerate his plans because of some logisitcal changes by the Dallas PD. I wonder what was supposed to happen after the first of the year? Ruby was certainly a JFK conspirator and worked with Oswald and Shaw in New Orleans. Some saw him hand a pistol to LHO outside the TSBD minutes after the massacre. Don’t forget that Ruby was known in Washington and had done some work for one Richard Milhous Nixon.

  58. Steve says:

    Ruby’s slaying of Oswald bears all the hallmarks of a mob hit. Or perhaps not. It may have been a case of, damned if you do, or damned if you don’t. I am positive that his motive about sparing Mrs. Kennedy the stress of a trial is a complete fabrication, because therefore it would go down as one of the greatest cases of human altruism in history. Added to the fact that it has been reported that his defence lawyer told him to say that. Then his other so called motive of wanting to show the world that Jews have guts, makes no sense either. When does one have to commit murder to show that you have guts. When Ruby shot and killed Oswald he signed his very own death warrant. He was willing to burn in the “CHAIR” by shooting a man who had not yet even been to trial. And by viewing the TV footage of him shooting Oswald it looks like he was going to empty his revolver. If on the other hand as people who knew him have said words to the effect, that he wanted to be somebody, then there are plenty of ways to be somebody without having a death wish. Or in this case, automatically fried. So either Jack Ruby was a complete lunatic, which does not seem to be the case,
    given the fact that he never murdered any individual before and had only an arrest history for much less minor offences. Or it was a case of damned if you do, or damned if you don’t on orders from figures from the underworld.

  59. JIM MARTIN says:

    ANTHONY CAVE BROWN AUTHORED BODY GUARD OF LIES.THIS WAS A BOOK HOW LIES WERE USED TO DECEIVE THE ENEMY IN WORLD WAR 2.BY FOOLING THE ENEMY BY DECEPTION THE ALLIED FORCES WON THE WAR BODYGUARD OF LIES PRINCIPLE WAS ALSO USED TO CLOUD THE JFK ASSACINATION THE ULTIMATE PRINCIPLE OF TRUTH HAS STILL TO BE BROUGHT THE THE PUBLIC

  60. Hello Everyone:

    Calvert Press would like to introduce you to “Breaking Tecumseh’s Curse,” which spotlights assassination and the U.S. Secret Service. Chapter 19, “Death in Dallas,” features a psychological profile of Lee Harvey Oswald. The chapter also reveals the special operations firearm technique used by Jack Ruby to kill LHO and some possible conspiracies.

    The book is co-authored by a former USSS agent, who’s not afraid to say what he really believes. The book is informative, entertaining, provocative and respectful of those who continue to search for the truth…

    The book is available at Amazon.com and other fine booksellers.

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  61. Gerry Simone says:

    How on earth can anyone believe that a hoodlum like Jack Ruby was ‘sincere’ about his incredible excuse for killing JFK?

    He had a business to run. Why would he jeopardize that by his absence in custody or in jail unless he was coerced by people in higher places (as he later referred to)?

    I believe that Gail Raven is sincere.

  62. steven yurik says:

    Good evening gentleman, whatever happened to the idea of obtaining the bullet fragments(all)from governor Connelly body? Were there ever any of those fragments ever compared to the so called magic bullet? After Connelly,s death were they in fact removed before his burial,and would his wife been given those? This corrupt shadow government of ours will never let the true facts come to light? And as a recently retired law enforcement officer, I will always be sickened about this injustice. Thank you.

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