Let’s crowdsource Yahoo News on a key JFK question

From Ten facts you don’t know about the JFK assassination – Yahoo News.

Citing Brad Meltzer, New York Times bestselling author and host of the History Channel series “Decoded,” Yahoo News asserts, “Plenty of shooters recreated Oswald’s shot.”

Is this true? I know what Jesse Ventura would say but I’m not expert in this area. I hope readers will contribute their knowledge.

This is what Meltzer says:

“One of the more pervasive myths surrounding the JFK assassination was the idea that no other shooter could replicate Oswald’s feat of shooting three times in 6.75 seconds. So another shooter must have been involved, right? Not necessarily. The Warren Commission reported that one marksman was able to pull off the feat in 4.6 seconds, and a later CBS investigation showed that 11 marksmen averaged 5.6 seconds. Also, Oswald’s shot was, for a trained shooter, relatively easy. Oswald and other military marksmen are trained to shoot anywhere from 200 to 500 yards. Kennedy was 88 yards from Oswald at his farthest point, and 59 yards away at the time of the last shot.”

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48 comments

  1. S.R. "Dusty" Rohde says:

    Let’s consider another possibility….that the shooter from the TSBD wasn’t attempting to kill JFK. Imagine the shooter was aiming in a “general” direction versus a “specific” direction. Meaning that the shooter wasn’t trying to hit JFK in the head. Would it be easier to fire more quickly?
    More importantly, there is other direct evidence which proves there was a frontal shot, and that a secondary shooter was involved.

    I have a question….would any of you like to help prove who that shooter was this week? I may have resolved this issue, who the second shooter was, and who he was involved with. Many of you are very knowledgable on this matter and could contribute significantly if interested. This occurred to me two days ago….after a post from this site, and the puzzle pieces began to fall into place. We may be able to solve this case here and now, for all to publicly witness…..just a thought.

    I have already started collecting the evidence two days ago…..

  2. Dan says:

    Meltzer’s 4th point states that 3% of the assassination related records are still withheld by the government. This is much higher than the 1% stated by Deputy Archivist Kurtz in 2010 (later walked back by the Archives). If Meltzer’s information is accurate that means 3% of the 5 million pages are withheld, in other words 150,000 pages are still secret.

  3. S.R. "Dusty" Rohde says:

    #1. The True Killer was…..”we will identify this person, this week”.

    #2. There was no “fourth shot” from the grassy knoll…film and physics proves otherwise.

    #3. Were there really “mysterious deaths”?….Or more properly stated, were people killed to keep them quiet….yes, Lee H. Oswald, Dorothy Kilgallen, Rose Cheramie, David Ferrie……

    #4. The Gov’t isn’t keep very many JFK secrets…..just the ones that implicate them.

    #5. Kennedy family chose to keep secrets as well…..as stated, “understandable”

    #6. The U.S. Government erred in keeping its investigation secret….No, the Government erred in trying to coverup evidence….hmmm…..what Politician does that remind you of?

    #7. There was no “Magic Bullet”…..exactly right, there wasn’t.

    #8. Oliver Stone’s “JFK” damaged history…..correction, the Warren Report damaged history….Stone’s JFK made it possible for records to be released.

    #9. Plenty of shooters recreated Oswald’s shot….assumptive and irrelevant. No one proved Oswald fired the rifle…and since the fatal head shot wasn’t fired from that location, it is not the most critical aspect of his death.

    #10. The Window went missing…..actually, we did know….but not relevant to solving the murder.

  4. Bob says:

    As far as I am aware none of these so-called recreations duplicated the entire scenario that Oswald was supposed to have carried out. The rifles used were all assembled and aligned before the
    “expert marksman” used them. But Oswald brought a bag full of rifle parts. He had to build a snipers nest and assemble the rifle without tools in a few minutes leaving no fingerprints on the internal parts and without any time to align the rifle or test fire it at all. Then he had to hit a moving target twice within about eight inches in six seconds and not get any trace of gunshot residue on his face.
    He then had to walk across the entire sixth floor which was covered with plywood without making any sound of footsteps that were heard on the floor below.
    That is the only proper test of whether Oswald could have done it, but nobody has even tried
    to replicate the whole thing. Also if Oswald was such a great shot how did he miss General Walker
    who was a stationary target?

    • Mitch says:

      You could argue that LHO was no trained sniper and lacking the instincts, consequently sat there and dithered until Walker just happened to move. You could argue this dithering and lack of sniper instincts is corroborated by his missed first shot in Dealey Plaza. I don’t exactly believe that interpretation, but it is a fair one to make.

    • CHristof says:

      I just learned of the Walker shooting (Killing Kennedy) and it immediately struck me “how could he miss a stationary target from 30 yds sitting level (not from high above), yet was able to make the shots at Kennedy from an elevated position, moving targets, and little time to fire multiple shots? I am an Army Vet that qualified sharpshooter with an M-16 and also an M14 sniper rifle, and I can honestly say that in my prime, although I’ve made some very impressive shots at over 100 meters at moving targets, I was not aiming at the President of the United States. The anxiety induced adrenaline rush that would affect all but the very best experienced snipers, and using the old and mechanically faulty Carcano LHO supposedly used would make those shots by even the best snipers would be near impossible.
      I’m no conspiracy theorist,but I have no doubt that LHO, although possibly involved, did NOT make the shots that killed JFK. Maybe when every possible person connected to the incident has long died, we may find the truth, but the outcry it would entail makes even that very doubtful.

  5. Thomas says:

    Yet again this is the stuff that mainstream media reports. It’s also distracting. The fact of a conspiracy does not hinge on whether Oswald was firing shots or not.

    The kinds of things the public actually doesn’t know are included in Jesse Ventura’s book and other books. People I speak to are shocked to hear things like the Parkland doctors said there was an exit wound in the back of Kennedy’s head or that Jack Ruby was stalking Oswald as early as Nov 22 or even about the Katzenbach memo. As many of us know, I could go on.

  6. Hans Trayne says:

    I qualified expert on M-16 & Colt .45 during Viet Nam era. Several times, several years.

    JFK was moving down a hill away from the TSBD with a car full of people tailgating him by a few feet. The more JFK’s car moved forward, the more the car full of people tailgating him obstructed his view from a TSBD ‘sniper’s nest’ sniper. When you get to the Zapruder frame z-313 this issue is now critical; with JFK falling towards his wife the car full of people tailgating him as well as their windshield, hood & fenders all play a role in obscuring an assassin’s view of JFK (for the TSBD’s ‘sniper’s nest).

    J. Edgar Hoover, portions of the WC (Arlen Specter) and all JFK TV investigative documentaries dealt with this issue by removing the guards & their car from re-enactments & presenting JFK as a solo, unobstructed target (which he wasn’t).

    If you actually visit Dealey Plaza & stand at the 2nd street X with a friend slighter taller than you standing a few feet in back of you (closer to the TSBD, you will instantly notice your friend blocks your view of the TSBD’s 6th floor sniper’s nest window & most of the 7th floor window above it. It means a sniper couldn’t see you to shoot at you if one was there.
    Any re-enactment you see on TV JFK investigative documentaries that leave out JFK’s guards & their car in rear trajectory analysis is feeding you snake oil.

    Lee Oswald’s alleged rifle had many mechanical problems that made a rapid fire almost impossible: the bold stuck, the trigger had to be pulled twice for each shot & the scope was worthless. The rifle (without the use of the scope) fired high & to the right of target.

    • Jean Davison says:

      The follow-up car and its passengers couldn’t have blocked the sniper’s view. Here’s a photo taken through the scope from the 6th floor at Frame 255 (scroll down):

      http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0054b.htm

      … and at Frame 313:

      http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055a.htm

      Even if the cars had been bumper-to-bumper, the 6th floor height provided a clear view of the entire limo.

      • Hans Trayne says:

        The photos printed in the WC indicate what a sniper would see if shooting at the SS follow-up car behind the JFK parade car, not the occupants of the parade car itself. There is NO visual evidence demonstrating clearance to JFK was available to an assassin because the WC/FBI did not accurately & honestly re-enact the shooting with all historical elements in place.

        The closest visual evidence the public has available to judge if clearance was available to a TSBD 6th floor sniper are a few, incomplete scenes from JFK & The Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald. I understand JFK: The Smoking Gun will include the guards.

        I have several videos on my Hans Trayne YouTube channel created from a 2004 animated JFK research tool that demonstrates what the scene would have looked like to a TSBD 6th floor assassin with JFK’s guards tailgating him the entire journey down Elm Street if you’d like to see for yourself what I am referring to.

        If still confused, think of JFK’s car as a train locomotive & SS follow-up car as a caboose immediately attached to it. The WC just photographed the caboose & not the locomotive/caboose combo, thus not dealing with any clearance problems the caboose may have caused.

        I take you are satisfied with Hoover’s work on the WC?

        • Jimmy Z. says:

          It was stated that the goal of the Warren commission was to satisfy the public that LHO was a lone assassin, ensuring them that there was no threat to our republic or way of life. Hence the WC photo is clearly taken from directly behind and above the “target” car. Think how the photo through the rifle imparts an indictment on LHO- like a visual hypnotic suggestion.

      • Hans Trayne says:

        Here’s an animation depicting what a TSBD sniper’s nest sniper would have seen without & with a scope when firing at JFK in his parade car with his guards car immediately tailgating behind it:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URryjCKkOyc

        Compare that animation to what you see in the WC. You can’t tell if the guards or their car obstructed an assassin’s line of sight to JFK because a representation of JFK & his parade car are missing from the photos. Visual proof of clearance would require both vehicles & actor stand-ins be represented.

  7. TLR says:

    If memory serves, they were firing at stationary targets, and took as much time as they liked to practice and align the scope. The CBS reenactment shooters also got to practice as much as they wanted before doing the “real” shooting.

  8. Steve says:

    Brad Meltzer – the self-described “decoder” of the hidden anomalies and shadowy complexities rife in American institutions – finds nothing original to report on the biggest unsolved political murder ever? He found nothing new in the millions of JFK Act documents? Looks quite possible that another shallow special is upon us.

    Just yesterday I came across a good essay on the media’s lack of integrity regarding the assassination by Robert Hennelly and Jerry Policoff:

    http://www.ctka.net/policoff.html

    There is a section on the 1967 CBS special, which John J. McCloy had influence on through his daughter Ellen McCloy, assistant to the head of CBS News.

    Money paragraph re the CBS rifle tests:

    [T]he money and manpower thrown at the project was undercut all along the way by errors in procedure and logic; if not motive. For instance, in trying to determine whether Oswald could possibly have fired all the rounds believed to have been squeezed off in Dealey Plaza, CBS used a rifle that was faster than Oswald’s: capable of three shots in 4.1 seconds as opposed to 4.6 seconds for Oswald’s. The 11 CBS marksmen fired 37 firing runs of three shots each; of those, an amazing 17 of the 37 runs were disqualified as Cronkite said “because of trouble with the rifle.” And, even with their faster guns and time to practice, the 11 marksmen averaged 5.6 seconds to get off their three shots, with an average of 1.2 hits. Oswald, a notoriously bad shot firing with a slower gun, is alleged to have done much better—three shots and two direct hits in 5.6 seconds, with no warm-up. CBS neglected to inform its viewers of the poor total average hit ratio. How did CBS interpret these rifle tests? “It seems reasonable to say that an expert could fire that rifle in five seconds,” intoned Walter Cronkite. “It seems equally reasonable to say that Oswald, under normal circumstances, would take longer. But these were not normal circumstances. Oswald was shooting at a president. So our answer is: probably fast enough.”

    Different rifles, trained marksman with multiple attempts, and misrepresented results. Having seen the special, I recall they had a cart on rail tracks, but had no trees partially blocking the view, as would have been present in Dealey Plaza.

    “That’s the way it is”, indeed.

  9. TLR says:

    Also, I believe the CBS shooters did not use the rifle found in the TSBD because it was in poor shape. So they used a Carcano that was in better condition.

  10. Alex S says:

    Carlos Hathcock, USMC, rejected the idea that the shots could be made, supposedly on the basis of recreations at the sniper school in Quantico.

  11. PBR says:

    Warren Commission Hearings, Volume III

    Testimony of Ronald Simmons, Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluations Branch of the Ballistic Research laboratory of the department of the Army.

    P.443. Machinists had to adjust the scope with two shims as it wasn’t sighted correctly. This fact in itself suggests that even a marksman aiming the rifle before this adjustment would have had difficulty firing accurately. No one has accounted for this discrepancy with the scope as yet.

    P.444. The 3 marksmen at Edgewood Arsenal were rated as Master Marksmen by the NRA. They were given as much time as they needed to fire at the first target and then fired as quickly as they could in succession at the 2nd and 3rd targets. The targets did not replicate the conditions, distances (which according to Counsel Melvin Eisenberg were “approximations”) or positioning of the President and Governor Connally in Dealey Plaza at the time of the ambush. Moreover the targets were stationary. Thus it is erroneous and misleading to equate the WC tests to conditions in Dealey plaza on November 22nd.

    P. 446 The shortest firing time for the three rounds, was 4.5 seconds achieved by Marksman Miller, without a scope mounted on the rifle, who nonetheless missed the third target completely while achieving this time. Out of 2 attempts with the scope he missed the second target on both despite achieving times of 4.6 (cited by Meltzer) and 5.15 seconds. Technically he did indeed hit the targets twice in this rapid few seconds but this must be offset by the fact that the simulation completely ignored the prevailing conditions at the time of the assassination. Moreover, Miller was one of the top marksmen in the country.

    P.447.The marksmen had difficulty opening the bolt and with the trigger which Simmons describes as a,’hair trigger’.

    P.450. In response to a loaded question from Commissioner John Mc Cloy regarding the shooting abilities of a firer who had been in the Marine Corps, Simmons ventured that a proficient shooter with practice and experience of the Carcano could well have achieved the feat attributed to Oswald. And this despite the failure of the master marksmen to achieve a loosely parallel feat in much more favourable conditions and the fact that Oswald’s record on the firing range during his service with the Marines is clearly documented as being average only, if not frequently below average.

    Documents provided courtesy of History Matters. Sourced from:

    http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=39&relPageId=449

  12. Neil says:

    From one of Michael T Griffith’s essays:

    “FACT: None other than Dan Rather admitted in a 1993 documentary on the assassination, “Who Killed JFK? The Final Chapter,” that the 1967 CBS rifle test showed the alleged shooting feat would have been difficult. Specifically, Rather said the test showed “the odds are against” a gunman doing what the WC said Oswald did. In fact, Rather added that this fact constituted support “for the theory that there perhaps was more than one gunman.” What led Rather to say this? Because in the 1967 simulation not one of the eleven expert riflemen who took part in the test managed to score two hits out of three shots on the moving target sled in less than 6 seconds. Seven of them failed to do so on any attempt. Oswald would have one and only one attempt.”

    http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/factmyth.htm

    • Jean Davison says:

      Neil,
      Griffith is wrong when he says not one of the riflemen in the 1967 CBS test “managed to score two hits out of three shots on the moving target sled in less than 6 seconds.” One man got 2 hits in just under 5 seconds, another had 3 hits in 5.2 seconds, according to this brief clip from the program:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg

      CBS claimed the WC set a time limit of 6 seconds, but that’s wrong, too.

  13. bugle boy says:

    The general consensus for the last 20 years or so is that Oswald had around 8 seconds for all three shots.

    So any 1960′s era recreations trying to fit the shots within 5-6 seconds have to be taken with a large grain of salt.

    • PBR says:

      The tests by the WC and by the CBS were timed from the firing of the first shot using the timing established by the Zapruder film. The sequence of the shots in Dealey Plaza was clocked at 5.67 seconds. This is an irrefutable fact underpinned by exact science. Hence the WC’s dilemma. Any individual firing the rifle in question could have taken a maximum three shots in the allotted time. This was the inescapable fact which forced Specter to posit the single bullet theory and the subsequent conclusion that only three shots were fired. This was the only possible theory, however implausible, to explain and substantiate the conclusion that Oswald, acting alone, had murdered the President and wounded Connally.

      • bugle boy says:

        The sequence of the shots in Dealey Plaza was never “clocked”. At 5.6 seconds or any other time. Because it’s impossible to know exactly when Oswald fired the first shot.
        The WC concluded “from approximately 4.8 to in excess of 7 seconds.”

        • PBR says:

          If James Tague was struck by a fragment from the second shot, as he testified to the WC and Nellie Connally’s testimony that the first shot hit the President is correct, the shooter had 5.6 seconds for the three shots. From the first impact to the head shot at frame 313 a maximum three shots could have been fired. I must stress that this is according to the timing and theory posited by the WC and fails to take into account the eyewitnesses and evidence that suggest more than 3 shots were fired.

          • bugle boy says:

            So those who accept that premise believe that all the shots were fired in 5.6 seconds. Whether there were 5,6,7,or more shots.

            Are there any serious researchers who still think all the shots were fired in 5.6 seconds?

          • Webbtide says:

            1st round already chambered while acquiring target. Fire 1st round. Eject/Chamber/Reacquire. Fire 2nd round. Eject/Chamber/Reacquire. Fire 3rd round. Possible in 5.6 seconds? Probably. But moot with evidence of more than three rounds as you suggest. Specter came up with single bullet late in the game when presented with Teague, his cheek wound and the strong evidence of 4th round.

    • Mitch says:

      A few lone nut authors does not a consensus make, though.

  14. Bill Pierce says:

    Below is Meltzer’s quote:
    “Kennedy was 88 yards from Oswald at his farthest point, and 59 yards away at the time of the last shot.”

    That doesn’t make much sense. At any rate, the Warren Report puts the headshot at 265.3 feet, ~88 yards.

    I don’t know of any reenactment in which the shooters used a badly misaligned scope to hit a bull’s-eye on a moving target at 88 yards. [See Ida Dox's drawing of the official head wound.]

    Although CE 399 is bogus and useless as evidence, I don’t know of any legitimate tests which exactly replicated the damage caused by the magic bullet (including loss of lead) that yielded a bullet in like condition.

    If anyone has sources that disprove the two comments above, please post them. Thanks.

  15. Jimmy Z. says:

    “In September 2006, Meltzer participated in a work group along with the CIA, FBI, various psychologists, and Department of Homeland Security intelligence staff to brainstorm new ways that terrorists might attack the U.S.[4][10]”

    I’m not saying that because of this he should be discounted, but the aire of suspicion of him being a dis-information specialist can and should not be discounted.

    You may be able to replicate the scene and distance- but there is no way in hell that you can replicate the environment. Shooting and murdering a sitting President? Not really a common occurrence- even for a hit man.

    Ask any deer hunter do you shoot when the buck it coming towards you or running away from you? There is no reasonable explanation as to why Oswald, or anyone else, would wait for the motorcade to turn on to Elm street. After the first shot at the President on N. Houston the motorcade would have speed toward you making the next shot, probably not necessary, but even easier. Even an impulsive fool like Oswald would know that! The only reason to wait for the turn is simply triangulation, plain and simple.

    I love the use of acoustic evidence, wasn’t the silencer invented before 1963?

  16. Jean Davison says:

    This may be the granddaddy of all JFK myths: that “Oswald’s feat” was hitting two out of three in 5.6 seconds or 6 seconds, or any similar number. This is a misunderstanding of what the WC actually claimed.

    The WC could locate only TWO shots on the Zapruder film: the first shot that it believed hit JFK while he was behind the street sign between Z210 and Z225, and the fatal shot at Z313. Since Zapruder’s camera ran at 18.3 frames per second, this means that *THOSE TWO SHOTS* were approximately 4.8 to 5.6 seconds apart.

    The Commission concluded that a third shot missed but couldn’t pinpoint it. IF the 3rd shot was fired between the other two, THEN AND ONLY THEN would the total firing time be 4.8 to 5.6 seconds. If the third one was fired either before or after the other two, Oswald would’ve had a little more time. This is why, as Bugle Boy pointed out, the WC said the total time was “from approximately 4.8 to in excess of 7 seconds.”

    The HSCA and others note that Connally appears to react to an early missed shot around frame Z160, which would put the total firing time at about 8 seconds. Two out of three hits at 88 yards or less in 8 seconds isn’t such an incredible “feat,” is it?

    • Jimmy Z. says:

      With that weapon in it’s condition it was potentially a feat. If the WC had evidence of only 2 shots, one missing where Connally reacts as you describe, then one in the back causing JFK to reflexively grab his throat- We appear to missing the headshot.

      “Governor Connally testified to the Warren Commission that the bullet which struck him in the back was fired later than the bullet which caused at least one of President Kennedy’s non–fatal wounds. Connally maintained for the rest of his life that he was struck by a separate bullet, after Kennedy had already been wounded.”

      The missing link is not is it possible (that wouldn’t answer the point of was it possible for Oswald). But why wait until the President gets PAST your sniper position. That is the point that makes NO sense.

      The WC has Oswald cold, calculating, and intense when necessary, and inept, impulsive and incompetent when necessary.

      The TSBD served as a vantage point, a distraction, as well as the place the patsy was employed. Dealey Plaza was, as Jim Garrison pointed out, a perfect place for triangulation. With something this important- letting the “target” get past you, makes no sense.

      As a side note the WC said that Oswald was an odd loner who wanted to make a name for himself- why would he not admit to the shooting when questioned by reporters?

      • Jean Davison says:

        This claim is often made: “Connally maintained for the rest of his life that he was struck by a separate bullet, after Kennedy had already been wounded.” But like a ton of other JFK claims, it isn’t true.

        Connally always insisted that the first shot did not hit *him*. But he also said that he wasn’t able to turn far enough to see JFK before he himself was wounded by the second shot, and this is confirmed by the Z film.

        Mrs. Connally always believed that the two men were hit separately, but Connally told the HSCA, “I never saw him … and I don’t know when he was hit.”

        http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA_Vol1_0024b.htm

        • TLR says:

          The Connallys said this in the 1967 CBS special -

          Nellie Connally: “The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President’s face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He Just had a – a look of nothingness on his face. He-he didn’t say anything. But that was the first shot. The second shot, that hit John – well, of course, I could see him covered with – with blood, and his – his reaction to a second shot. The third shot, even though I didn’t see the President, I felt the matter all over me, and I could see it all over the car.”

          John Connally: Beyond any question, and I’ll never change my opinion, the first bullet did not hit me. The second bullet did hit me. The third bullet did not hit me.

          • Jean Davison says:

            TLR, Yes, that’s what I said — Connally always insisted that he himself was not hit by the first shot. He doesn’t say anything there about when Kennedy was hit. His wife disagreed, but Connally was turned away from her part of the time, making it difficult to see his reaction to being hit.

    • Bill Pierce says:

      Jean davison writes:
      “Two out of three hits at 88 yards or less in 8 seconds isn’t such an incredible “feat,” is it?”

      Yes. They weren’t just random hits. Considering the rifle, the misaligned scope and the moving target, the bull’s-eye headshot at 88 yards isn’t believable. Apparently one of the shots completely missed the limousine. That’s entirely plausible. Just firing the rifle at the middle of the limo’s rear seat might have resulted in JFK’s or Connally’s back wound. Note: “back” wound not “neck” wound. The longer shot is the problem.

      Jean, if you have a source for a legitimate reenactment of Oswald’s marksmanship that
      (a) employs a similarly skilled marksman who hasn’t been given foreknowledge of the motorcade’s configuration, speed, etc,
      (b) uses a significantly misaligned scope,
      (c) limits the shooter to a single attempt without rehearsal,
      please post it. Thanks.

      [We are trying to prove the statement that "plenty of shooters recreated Oswald's shot."]

      Here’s an essay about the accuracy of the rifle:
      http://www.ctka.net/pr795-fbifib.html

      • bugle boy says:

        Oswald’s rifle had a misaligned scope.

        True. But it is not known whether the scope was out of alignment be-
        fore the assassination, or after, either from Oswald jamming the gun be-
        tween boxes, or by police mishandling. The scope was slightly
        misaligned down and left which, if it had been misaligned before the
        assassination, may have aided Oswald in hitting JFK, who was moving
        up and right across Oswald’s field of view for the last two shots.

        It’s possible Oswald did not use the side-mounted scope, relying in-
        stead on the iron sights on top of the weapon. He may also have used
        the scope for the first shot, missed, and then switched to the sights.

        http://www.jfk-assassination.net/faq.txt

  17. Neil says:

    The facts are:

    - Lee Harvey Oswald had no practice with the rifle in the 60+ days prior to 11/22/63(The WC concluded that he had not taken the rifle out of Ruth Paine’s garage prior to the morning of the assassination)

    - None of the re-enactments have accurately re-created the conditions in which the shooting of JFK allegedly happened

    • Jean Davison says:

      Neil and others,
      It will always be impossible to recreate the exact conditions of the shooting.

      For instance, there’s no way to know the precise positions of the two victims at the time they were hit, exactly how long it took, or Oswald’s shooting ability on that particular day.

      Who here would be willing to be driven down Elm Street at motorcade speed and let even a poor marksman take three shots at him with an M-C? Any takers?

      • leslie sharp says:

        Jean, this seems to be a major shift from your argument that Oswald was the lone gunman; are you now questioning how all of the elements aligned in a particular manner on that particular day to ensure that Oswald was successful? If the assassination cannot be reconstructed, how can the forensics and ballistics withstand the scrutiny of a jury? It seems to me that you can’t have it both ways.

      • Neil says:

        I agree but the point is, anti-Conspiracy people reference these re-enactments as if they DID re-create the exact same conditions when in fact no test that I’m aware of has.

        Was it an easy shot for trained marksmen who were able to take practice shots prior to performing the test? Probably.

        Was it an easy shot for LHO who was an average shot and had not practiced with the rifle for over two months prior to 11/22/63? I’m not so sure.

        • bugle boy says:

          Oswald was an average/above-average shot for a Marine, but a very good/excellent shot compared to the male population.

          • Neil says:

            Oswald had been out of the Marines for more than 2 years and had not touched his rifle for more than two months prior to the eve of the assassination. While he may have been an above-average shot while in the Marines, there’s scant evidence that he did anything to keep his shooting skills sharp in the months and weeks before the assassination.

            Oswald’s shooting ability on the day of the assassination was most likely not very good unless one believes he was a naturally gifted shooter who didn’t need to practice with his weapon…

          • Neil says:

            Based on Marina’s WC testimony, there’s no evidence that Oswald practiced with his rifle from May 1963 when they moved to New Orleans til the assassination. That’s a key problem that people seem to gloss over.

  18. bugle boy says:

    But the “inaccurate gunman” theory is a double edged sword.

    Presume the hypothetical conspirators hired world class marksmen who had lots of pre-assassination practice. Their accuracy on 11/22 was anything but world class. Firing 4+ shots from two different locations with possibly one complete miss (Tague), 1 or 2 shots to JFK’s back/neck (a non-lethal wound), and only ONE shot hitting its target- JFK’s head. That’s bad shooting no matter how much practice the hypothetical shooters had.

    • Neil says:

      The same can be said of the Gen. Walker shooting in relation to the JFK case against Oswald.

      The idea that LHO couldn’t hit a stationary target with the rifle but after having not used it for several months he hit a moving target on 11/22/63.

      • bugle boy says:

        Oswald missed his first shot on 11/22, and he missed his first and only shot at Walker, barely. Slivers of the bullet were embedded in his arm.

  19. b strycharz says:

    If Oswald was such a good marksman and shot President Kennedy in a moving vehicle from the 6th story building hundreds of yards away, why couldn’t he hit General Walker who was supposedly sitting down at his desk?

  20. Sniper90 says:

    Oswald didn’t shot the president but was designed to be the shooter.
    The gunmen use his carcano rifle to shot the president and the Oswald hand print was on the gun and ammunition.
    The most important point his the missing first shot… According to me the president was suppose to be kill on the first shot at the closest distance with high angle to get only the president head and nobody else.
    The gunmen miss the shot because of the stupid offset scope mount on the carcano, so there was nothing in his line in the scope but something was in the line of the bullet just enough to deviate the bullet.
    HERE start the problem about the secret service… WHY they didn’t react to this gun shot in blocking the president and moving away at high speed?????? The sound of a high power gun shot is very different than the sound of a fireworks and a secret agent can’t miss the difference. So, the nobody did nothing and the gunmen fire the second shot and hit the back of the president… Again, why the driver and secret agent did nothing????? The car is always moving at the same speed, the gunmen has see the impact on the president and he know how to adjust his fire for the next shot… The third shot is right on the back of the head… And only now, the car is accelarating…. The secret service know that this day the president will be shot to dead and they wait until he was dead to move away. It’s a nonsense for me that they didn’t react between the first and third shot. We speek here of high power gun shot with a clear an distinctive sound for anybody knowing about high power rifle.

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