Fact check: Oswald’s ‘girlfriend.’ Is she for real?

Her name is Judyth Vary Baker. She says she had a romance with Lee Harvey Oswald and they worked on a secret bio-weapons program in New Orleans in 1963. As the 50th anniversary of the assassination approached, her flair for self-dramatization was getting some attention.

Jesse Ventura has endorsed her story. She’s gotten respectful treatment in Pittsburgh. A San Francisco newspaper columnist reported her story uncritically.

There is little evidence that her story is true. 

One Baker believer argues this evidence supports her story.

– A pay stub from a company where Oswald worked that verifies they worked together;

– “A friend who said on tape that she and her husband double-dated with Baker and Oswald;”

– “Videotapes of Baker recounting her experience in the laboratory and her recollection of her superior there, Dr. Ochsner, who had ties with anti-communist organizations and the FBI.”

This is hardly compelling. A pay stub does not prove a romance. I cannot find a link to any video of the friend saying she and her husband double-dated with Judyth and Lee. And videotapes of her experience with the doctor are irrelevant to the question of whether she had a relationship with Oswald.

Good faith attempts by JFK conspiracy researchers to corroborate her story have resulted in dense and impenetrable discussions that revolve around hearsay — what she said when — but rarely touch on actual evidence.

With the help of credible researchers, John McAdams has compiled the many problems with Baker’s story.

If there’s something I’m missing here, please let me know.

 

 

 

13 comments

  1. Bill Kelly says:

    While her book published by TrinDay is pretty neat, with a lot of photos and footnotes – and appears to be accurate on most counts, unlike other witnesses, I could find few leads that panned out to other supportive witnesses or records, which is usually the case. JVB must have known Oswald from Reilly Coffee but the cancer-killing-Castro angle is bizarre, as is the fact that there are two Judyth Bakers, and we can’t find the other one.

  2. greg parker says:

    She’s every bit as “real” as Mimi Alford – and has the same amount of proof for her claims.

    http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t185-samuel-taylor-coleridge-would-be-so-proud

  3. My take on Judy Baker? She is mostly telling the truth. I do believe she was Oswald’s summer 1963 mistress and I do believe she was engaging in “off the books” weaponizing cancer research, indirectly for the CIA. CIA has been involved with a lot of bizarre things – witness all the MKULTA experiments that were going on during this exact same era.

    I think Judy basically telling the truth and probably mixing in some embellishemts or “lies” if you will. Martin Shackleford, a sober JFK researcher, believes her story. Ed Tatro, one of the greatest JFK researchers of all time, is a strong advocate for her story. Ed Haslam is another completely sober man who believes her.

    I wish folks (Judy Baker) either were 100% truthful or 100% liars. But humans are not built that way; often it is a mix of truth vs. lies or simple misremembering. Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater with Judy. It is like saying OJ is innocent in the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson because Mark Fuhrmann lied under oath about referring to black people as niggers.

    Unlike, Judy, I think Oswald was involved in the JFK assassination (not a shooter, but an unwilling fall guy) because of the very fact he was U.S. intelligence. Oswald was hanging out with all these fantatically right wing Kennedy haters (Phillips, Bannister, Shaw, Ferrie); it is hard to see him as an innocent.

    Btw, I think the government murdered Jack Ruby with weaponized cancer. He was just won a critical court case (had his conviction overturned) and was soon going to be able to leave jail before his new trial and thus be “accessible” to the public. I think the govt. injected Ruby with cancer with the intent to murder him. I did not arrive at this opinion over night.

    As for Mimi Alford, JFK’s teenage mistress (one of many…), I think she is nearly a pristine witness – probably 100% of her story is true. All one has to do is read the oral history of Barbara Gamarekian who embargoed her 1964 oral history simply because she did not want to embarrass Jackie or the newly married Mimi.

    Mimi says JFK told her at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis that he’d rather his children be red than dead. Sounds like JFK and I do believe that to be extremely historically significant.

    With the advice of McGeorge Bundy, LBJ, the JCS, congressional leaders & the governments – all screaming for bombing or an invasion of Cuba – we’d be dead. Or, rather, a lot of folks would be.

    Gamarekian oral history: http://mysteryromance.blogspot.com/2012/02/1964-barbara-gamarekian-oral-history.html

    • NellTick says:

      Oswald was described by all who knew him as a loner, someone who kept everything inside, and one who rejected any close relationships. Even his relationship with Marina was very shadowy from his standpoint. Why then would someone like that totally confide in someone like Judyth, who was young and totally a stranger to him, on such an important matter as he was supposedly engaged in? His personality makes me doubt this relationship ever was possible.

  4. greg parker says:

    Robert,

    please quote Barbara Gamarekian saying she had direct (or even indirect) knowledge of an affair between Ms Alford and JFK.

    Robert Dalek out and out misused and abused Ms Gamerekian’s oral history to help sell his book, and perhaps for other even less noble reasons.

    As for JVB, I’m afraid the historical facts bely the central tenets of the anti-Castro plot into which she casts LHO. That being the case, any affair she claims to have had with him is entirely irrelevant to the assassination.

    I don’t wonder that you believe both, given you seem predisposed to believe any allegations made by anyone when it comes to sex – but I do very much wonder about those who believe one and not the other in the two cases referred to here. I mean, there is nothing to split them. They both waited a long time to come forward, both wrote books, and neither has anything of weight to support their claims beyond their own say so, and proof of working in the same building. The main difference is that Alford’s allegations are far more harmful to history. On that basis alone, the bar should be maintained (if not raised) in regard to proof. Instead, the likes of Dalek have sought to lower it to ground level. But ONLY if there is a Kennedy involved.

    • jeffmorley says:

      But Greg, I am NOT disposed to believe both Mimi Alford and Judyth Baker.

      I am disposed to believe neither woman’s story has any relevance to the JFK assassination story. I’ve never written about Mimi Alford for this site for that reason. Until I see corroborating evidence for Baker’s claims, I believe the same about her story.

      Thankfully, Judyth Baker has written us to state her case herself and we will have a chance to review her claims and her evidence in more detail.

      • greg parker says:

        Jeff,

        I know you are not disposed to believe both. I said my concern was with people who believe one but not the other, given I can’t discern any substantive difference in their credibility. Given that lack of difference in credibility, the only reason to believe one and not the other, comes down to personal agenda.

        One example might be that you want to push a particular theory, so you latch onto JVB whose story can be used to support said theory, while discounting Mimi’s story as a pack of lies.

        Or another might be latching onto Alford’s story as true (with or without it having any relevance to anything) while discounting JVB with both positions held solely for the purpose of being taken seriously by the MSM.

        I don’t need to be Nostradamus to predict your review on JVB will be negative.

  5. Jim Phelps says:

    I am one of the rare persons that has met Judyth Baker, and basically known her for a decade, and I don’t find the objections to her story that the detractors in the JFK investigation invent. I have paged through her notebook and seen many Coffee Company check stubs, and various other supporting documents that show the written proof in ways most undeniable. She was there in New Orleans and knew Lee Oswald, zero doubt. There are other witnesses that support her story!

    There is even a play now that brings her story to life in the theater and it is an excellent production! This will no doubt steam her detractors also.

    There are many that have never met Judyth Baker and follow the political ways of the JFK information detractors, which are generally allied with the John McAdams folks and the Education Forums and John Simpkin methods that act more to suppress the JFK information than to expose the areas that do fact check. This is part and parcel for why these remain unsolved for nearly 50 years, as these detractor types don’t want the truth exposed. Education Forum and John Simkin are a British affair and they appear more interested in creating misinformation than doing real fact checking. Bill Kelly and Education Forum are the roots for much of the attack the Judyth Baker story, as it mostly stem from this area.

    Persons, like Education Forum’s Bill Kelley, are wanna be JFK experts, and they have never met persons like Judyth Baker or even asked to page through her notebooks pages from this time in her life. Such blind opinion is hardly akin to fact checking, and only kin to I didn’t fact check anything hand-waving nonsense.

    Jesse Ventura supports Judyth Baker’s story very likely because she showed him some of her supporting document notebooks, which are several. The reason that some of these areas of JFK interest don’t know that which is obvious to others is they maintain and contribute to web blog areas that are essentially hostile toward exposing various information on the JFK assassination, and they censor and restrict anyone from telling the JVB story and supporting her as being the real deal. I’ve been there and observed this happens. Such isn’t real JFK investigation methods, only scamming the innocent seeking the higher truths on JFK. Their insights are not reliable, nor even honest in my opinion and experiences.

    Judyth Baker has been on a book tour the last month, Nov.-Dec. 2012, and had all the information in black and white to show anyone polite. It is offered freely and there is abundant proof she is as she claims. She has many supporters that did fact checks. Ed Haslam was curious about the Mary Sherman’s murder down in New Orleans and in his serious investigations of her Murder he finds the Judyth Baker and Lee Oswald story, which he did not set out to find and didn’t want to get involved in the JFK and Castro hit story, but that is where the trail led. Haslam discovered Judyth Baker knew Mary Sherman so well that she could tell the difference between her photo and one of her sister, which really impressed him. So, there are lots of independent people that have taken the time to look carefully at the Judyth Baker story and do real fact checks in place of hand waving from many of those hostile to her telling her story. Such isn’t fact checking, but just more a detractor’s propaganda.

    Most likely when she came to these areas of the recent news coverage on her recent book tour the various reporters saw these same notes and she received good support because the supporting information is there. Such apparently just steams all those that have tried to attack her for years and her story since she came out and told it perhaps a decade ago. Some of her detractors can’t even find that radiation can cause cancer and all cancers have a viral pathogen trigger that sets off the rapid cell growth via cytokine factors generated unique to each virus. Such scientific vapidness isn’t about fact checking, and is nothing more than biased political propaganda that doesn’t come close to truths in science. I mean really, the radiation methods to kill people are several, and even the Russian’s political assassinations have used radiation methods. There is a huge and obvious association with cancer and radiation, and it can be used to kill easily and has been used. It was the biggest of fears on the Manhattan Project.

    There is balogna that rejects the grinder and calling this page a fact check, or the Bill Kelly Education Forum’s styled attack game, is total balogna, in my humble opinion. I have seen how these persons act and they are not reliable for anything except being wrong!

    IMHO,

    Jim Phelps

  6. FROM JUDYTH VARY BAKER: People try to find my lengthy reply to your article, but it fails to appear. Why? they look for your “Oswald’s Girlfriend” article, but there, nobody can find my reply. NOR IS THE REPLY VISIBLE THAT I LEFT WITH YOU CONCERNING MARY FERRELL FOUNDATION’S PUBLISHING AN ALTERED PAIR OF DOCUMENTS, in response to Jeff Morley’s statement that no documents there have been altered, ‘correcting’ me. We cannot find my reply, so i am posting it here again, for Mr. Morley, a man I do hope will one day seek to interview me himself regarding the relevance of the information I supply regarding Lee Oswald, and Lee’s activities to save, rather than destroy, Kennedy.

    Please DO publish this reply, where people can find it, and also, to inform Mr. Morley and others concerning the altered evidence.

    NOTE this information: CD 589, EXHIBIT D-110 –ELEVEN TIME CARDS, REILY, FBI REPORT 03 MAR 1964: TIME CARDS FOR MAY 17 AND MAY 31 HAVE THEIR ‘J’S’ REMOVED, AS WELL AS “MADE 40″ WHICH I WROTE ON BOTH OF THOSE CARDS. UNDER SEARCH OF FBIO DOCUMENTS, AT THAT SITE, PLUG IN “CD 589 03 MAR 1964″ TO SEE THE ALTERED DOCUMENTS. CONTRAST WITH THE UNALTERED ORIGINALS SHOWING ALL THE ‘J’ INITIALS AND ‘MADE 40′ NOTATIONS CLEARLY. (THESE WERE OBTAINED BY SIXTY MINUTES AND NANCY ELDRETH YEARS EARLIER FROM THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES –FROM FBI FILES, SPECIAL PERMISSION AT THAT TIME NEEDED).

    Many researchers have copies of the unaltered time cards. Seems we will have to make a YouTube presentation, to show what was done–and why it matters. Erasing my presence from the record has been going on for some time, many of us believe, but this is the most recent example, having been detected in June, 2012. If the author of this article had actually met and interviewed me –I have been available freely for the past month (that window is now closed–having now personally met additional researchers, including Robert Groden and Jesse Ventura, for many hours–these two questioned me together one evening, just for starters–these who have seen the evidence and questioned me have been satisfied.

    Those who rely on secondhand information or on altered documents and altered emails and statements made about me or purportedly by me, should consider the value of firsthand knowledge. I am a living witness –judged without being interviewed–by your fact-finding system. Was that fair? Judgments as to my veracity and utility in the case have been made by persons who never met me, have never seen the raw, unaltered evidence, and who believe falsified material and statements being circulated about me.

    Thank you for publishing this information. I repeat: I was available for six weeks in the USA, with a published schedule. Jesse Ventura made a long trip to find out about the real Judyth Vary Baker, to view the evidence, to ask the important questions, and to see what I said, actually wrote, and did, in contrast with what detractors have published online and said about me behind my back. So–where was John McAdams? Where was Bill Kelly, who even posts on one of my Facebook pages (Occupy Dealey Plaza)? Thank you for posting this response. JVB

    • jeffmorley says:

      The documents that appear on Mary Ferrell Foundation Web site were copied directly from the National Archives. They were not altered.

      Readers will have to decide for themselves if these time cards corroborate the main claims found Judyth Baker’s story.

      Myself, I need more evidence.

      In the future, comments that try to make their points will not be published. I am making an exception here because I think ALL CAPS ARE UGLY, UNCONVINCING and UNPLEASANT.

    • Rich Pope says:

      My name is Rich Pope. My late father was the Vice Chairman and CEO of Southwestern Bell Telephone Company. I can verify that Judyth Vary Baker is telling the truth when she said that she and Lee Oswald had conversations over the phone with a telephone number that did not charge either one of them for the calls.

  7. Rockwell Livingston says:

    E Haslam is making his pitch at Loyola University July 20, 9 – 1.

  8. Geoff Mellard says:

    I met Miss Baker,Lee Harvey Oswalds girlfgiend on the 50th anniversary of JFKs deaht in Dallas ,She is a humble lady who in my oppinion only seeks to exonerate Oswalds who is wholely innocent of the crime that the US government perpatrated . Anyone with half an ounce of brain matter knows it was the US government who murdered JFK .The problem is The highest power in the US is not superceeded by a higher power to bring them to justice.So it’s impossible to get justice,but we can get the truth and expose the government for what they was and still are.

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